Episode 5 – Entering God Consciousness

entering god consciousness

Dimensional Meditation, Deconstructing Religion, and the Planes of Light

In this episode, Eric engages in a Q&A with a new student and delves into the foundational topics of spirituality and its role in your life. Explore the barriers preventing you from developing a personal relationship with God and the realities of entering God-Consciousness.

Tap into the source of creativity and finding the flow state, then move deeper to rediscover the true, forgotten purpose of meditation.


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In this show we cover: 

    • What the main purpose of meditation is and what the meaning of enlightenment is [2:00]
    • The dreaming process, its role in survival, and “the therapist mind” [4:00]
    • How you can tap into the source of creativity [11:15]
    • How to achieve a state of detachment or “Flow” [16:00]
    • Moving into the present [20:55]
    • What thoughts are and how can you make them work in your favor [23:15]
    • The planes of light and entering God Consciousness [34:25]
    • What God is and how your perception can prevent you from developing a personal relationship with God [44:10]
    • The meaning of love and the role it plays in your spiritual journey [51:30]
    • Deconstructing religion – pros, cons and its effect on spirituality [53:55]
    • Data sharing and the relationship between the aura, your soul, and chakras [57:05]
    • Apathy/denial of spirituality in human culture among historical trends [1:05:20]
    • Spiritual evolution and the reality of world peace [1:20:00]
    • Exploring the existence of heaven and hell, the meaning of life, and the afterlife [1:28:40]
    • The law of attraction [1:39:55]



Entering God Consciousness [Click to see more...]

Jared: My first question is pretty broad but I think it’s important to start this out. I know when people think the word “meditation,” they kind of have these connotations of sitting cross-legged, just doing nothing. They don’t really understand the purpose behind it. What would you say is the main purpose of meditation? [1:36]


Eric: The main purpose of meditation is to attain enlightenment. Everything else is a byproduct of that process, so most people—westerners—when they meditate, they’re really looking for relaxation, in my opinion, the majority. Other people are looking for mental clarity. Other people are looking for the ability to retain information better, but largely for relaxation. Enlightenment has also taken on a lot of different interpretations, and I like to leave enlightenment at the level of your consciousness expanding in such away that you have an understanding of things that you would not have understood at some point, or at least now you find all of sudden it’s like things are logically moving together in understanding very rapidly. It’s a movement that continues that way.

In order to get there, as I said before, the byproduct is that you have to quiet your mind, relax your consciousness. People just get to that point where it’s all they ever do, their whole life. They never really realize they can push for something further. It’s like having a giant castle and only exploring the first floor, but there’s four stories, a basement, and everything else. It will do all of those things, as a byproduct, but that’s the weakest level of entering meditation.

Jared: Speaking of quieting the mind, I think especially in our culture today the mind is continuously racing all the time thinking about problems, the future, planning, whatever. I personally tend to have the most racing thoughts at night when I’m trying to sleep. It’s like my mind is doing it on purpose almost to keep me from sleeping. Do you think there’s a correlation between your mind racing and you trying to keep it from racing? Do you think that the more you try to prevent your mind from racing, the more that it does that? [3:24]


Eric: Well, yes and no. I always say that you have to look at biology, chemistry, human nature, evolution. Most of the things that we experience on a day-to-day basis, of course, they’re on steroids in certain areas because we’ve evolved into a kind of culture technologically. We deal with a variety of stresses that we normally would not have to deal with. I always say, “Go back in time and go to a primitive time.” There was less action but when there was action, it was like warring tribes or you were being hunted by an animal or those things. Or, you experience something like lightning hitting a tree. If you really go back in time, this a traumatic thing you don’t really understand it. There’s fire and you don’t have fire yet. You’re just traumatized.


What happens is that the human brain, when you go to sleep, has a dreaming process. We usually see things that are frightening and what happens is that you end up having reoccurring dreams. I call this “the therapist mind.” By exposing yourself to something over and over again, it’s like the mind finds a way to cope with that newness, that new thing, and deals with the problem. Anything that your mind is consciously [doing], or your brain, whatever you want to call it, it’s kind of engulfed in it and focusing on it. It, now, is a triggering effect for it to want to start sorting it, reviewing it, dealing with it—usually the stresses of it because that’s survival if you think about it. It doesn’t define what the threat it. It could be a book flying at your head. It defines it as a sense of stress, so the stress wants to review all these possibilities of this book being thrown at you, or whatever it is, people, whatever.

I think it is partially a natural process. I think it’s also a habitual process, meaning it’s a habit that you developed without realizing it. At some point, if you’re a college student, you’ve probably had to cram for testing or something and you were up late. You started doing this repetitively and then all of a sudden you change your lifestyle, maybe because your work changes or your school schedule changes or whatever. It’s still running its system. One of the things that’s really amazing about it is that we are, more or less, self-aware. “I think, therefore I am.” The idea is to take meditation and be aware of those thoughts and find techniques to slow them down, quiet them if at all, try to remove them as much as possible.


Your brain, in my opinion, is doing what it’s supposed to do. I wouldn’t look at it as necessarily a bad thing. I would look at it as it’s doing its normal process, and the approach you take to that is going to define whether you’re successful in slowing that down and clearing your mind. For instance, one of the most powerful things to say to somebody when they’re meditating is that they get a “Babbler mind,” we call it, or a “monkey mind.” It’s just, “I’ve got to do laundry,” and you’re like, “Shh! I’m trying to be quiet!” If you say you don’t want to think about gorillas, you’ll find that you’re having visions of gorillas. One of the things is when you understand how the mind is working, you say to yourself, “Think of nothing.” Most people think it abstractly, “I try to think about nothing all the time!” That’s not what I’m trying to say. This is also a misunderstanding, universally, like many other terms from spiritual teachings. It’s a huge misunderstanding, which is why nobody gets any distance with it.

When I say, “Think of nothing,” what does ‘nothing’ mean? If you had to give it an image, a structure, a texture, anything. What would you say?

Jared: Nothing.

Eric: You could say it becomes like a fog or just a grey image [with] nothing in it. You could argue, “Well, the grey is something.” It doesn’t matter. Have a representation, the most simple, cleanest—anything! If you say to yourself, “I’m going to think of nothing,” and you think of nothing, [just] like you would say gorilla. A gorilla has fur, a snout, whatever, it has certain features. Nothing, to you, would be fog, empty fog. You can’t see the ground, you can’t see the sky, you can’t see anything in it. There’s a sense of depth, but that’s it. It’s as close to nothing as you’re going to get, within reason of different options. When you do that, then that’s what you get. There’s nothing to really fixate the image on or to get your mind babbling about as much. It’s a very fast way to have stretches of non-thought, or “non-monkey brain.”


You could also do the same thing about, “I’m not going to talk.” What is not talking? You have to have a representation of that. So, you would then say to yourself, “No, no, no. I want to talk, but I’m waiting for the non-talk to not talk.” You have to change the wiring of concepts in your head, and this is what I call “hijacking the brain,” or it’s a backdoor, as we would say it the old-school way. It’s basically a way to hijack your thinking process by introducing new ways of thinking that you normally haven’t created a pattern with.

When it’s new, it’s like, “What the hell?” It’s kind of like a deer in lights. It’s like, “What does that mean?” It has a profound effect on your consciousness. Your brain is going to babble at night because you’ve trained it to babble at night. You’ve picked up bad habits, per se. The idea is to sit down, even for ten minutes, focus on your breathing and focus on the two things that I mentioned. In ten minutes, you’ll be able to quiet your mind. If you’re in bed, and you’re just going away, then I would say there’s also chakra points. [There are] different things we can do. The simplest is to focus on breath, going in and out of your nose slowly. Breath has a very commanding control over thought. They’re both directly connected. Too much information or…?


Jared: No, that was good. I think there’s a lot more simplicity to life than we put to it. We try to force things a lot and I think going along with that, the more we try to force something, the less it’s going to come to reality. So, if we try to go to sleep, it’s not going to work. A lot of people say when they try to stay up in bed, that’s when they fall asleep the fastest. [9:53]


Eric: Again, there it goes with that reverse approach.

Jared: Yeah, so it’s interesting. Once you let go and understand that life is easy and just kind of go with it, then you kind of get to that point where…Yeah. So, I kind of want to talk about creativity. I do a lot of things with creativity: I write music and do other writings and draw and stuff like that. So, when my mind is racing, babbling, whatever, I obviously get a lot of creative ideas in there. Also, when I meditate and I quiet my mind and I’m just there, things kind of bubble up to the surface and they’re some of the most profound creative things. So, how do you get creativity? What’s the source of that and how do you kind of access it? [10:24]


Eric: Well, I think it’s a multiple choice and multiple answer thing. I would dissect, also in the brain, audible answers in your mind versus visual answers versus empathetic answers. Sometimes you get them all packaged into one, making a fourth answer. Understand that, when you have something you’re working on and you’re trying to develop that, you’re now entering the same thing where your mind was keeping you up at night for the first question or the second question. A lot of times, I think it was—There’s a lot of things [with] people who’ve had their epiphany in their dream and it worked. That’s because their mind was sucked into what they were working on, consistently, and when they went to sleep, the subconscious mind, in my opinion, had [fewer] distractions and was probably able to very rapidly do testing scenarios like we think of computers doing, testing for weather patterns [and] what’s going to happen, and do changes slightly. It’s going through all those processes, just like you would do when you were conscious and you’re staying awake, but it can do it faster. It doesn’t have emotions clopping up the system, per se.

The idea is then to wake up and pull that information but if you’re meditating, the idea is to understand that instead of thinking about something, instead of saying, “I want to come up with a great piece of music,” it’s to want for nothing. When I say that, it doesn’t mean you don’t want for something, because you do, it’s to say that if you use words in your head, they’re very limiting as a thought process. You already know what everything is without touching it. Your awareness has an intent. That intent is you have an inner desire to have some great piece of music come from you, from somewhere that’s genius [within] you. With that intent, you accept not to put a parameter of expectation. The second you think about wanting something, you have expectation. Your brain can only think, on a conscious level, to be so creative. It’s limiting, but when you remove that, to just have an open intent, no demands, when it’s ready to come, it’ll perk itself and boom, there it’ll be. That’s how you have to approach it but this correct thinking to be able to do two things at one time.  


People want to use their brain or they want to reach out and touch something, smell something, see something, look at it, hear it, focus your attention, your ear on something. In our mind, we tend to do the same thing. In there, you have to remember that there is no physical substance for you to use your five sense for. This is where people go all wrong in their consciousness. They need to find a sixth sense and that sixth sense is a tool that can move in a non-organic way or material way. That’s to go through mind, through ethereal consciousness, through time, space, dimension. You have to learn how to baby walk that. You have to learn how to get the motion gears down and how to control that.

Without rambling on too much more, to find the answers that you’re looking for—they’re there. You’re blocking them, in my opinion, because you have a certain way of thinking and you’re thinking externally and applying it internally. This is why people can’t get this kind of knowledge out of themselves. This is a part of the enlightenment cycle. When you get more and more, it’s because you more or less hold your breath and dive, instead of saying, “I have to breathe in the water.” If you were in water, you’d know better. It’s the same thing. When you dive into your mind, you have to approach it in a way that’s designed for that environment. You go deeper and you’re able to eventually get to the bottom and bring the pearls up or to bring that knowledge up. You’re allowed to come up first thing. The second you have a thought, a verbalization, an emotion that’s biochemically induced in the brain, it’s almost like it knocks it right out like air hockey. It’s a very delicate process but once you have it down you can move through it a lot better.


Jared: I’m a psychology major and there’s a term in sports psychology called “flow.” Have you heard of that? [15:27]


Eric: Yeah, I’m very familiar with it.

Jared: It sounds very similar to that kind of thing.


Eric: It’s very, very, very true. They’re detaching.


Jared: Yeah and I’ve definitely felt that. I’ve been in that flow state where a big thing of that is you don’t limit yourself and you don’t allow others to limit you. I think a lot of creativity comes from letting go of thinking about what somebody will judge your creative process.

Eric: Absolutely. With flow, there’s detachment and the idea is to detach, if they’re running, of course, the pain of your body and whatever. Eventually, they can separate from that.


Jared: It’s almost detaching from the physical plane and solely going into that ethereal—

Eric: Correct. So, this is what you would, the Buddhists would, or various monks would be able to endure great levels of cold doing the same thing. They’re just sitting so you don’t think about it, where we’ve adapted [it] over to running or physical movement which can be demanding on a whole different level. If you think about Africa and you have certain tribes that would run great distances, they would attain that state also, physically moving. It’s something that’s [inductive] in the brain and I think in primitive times, we probably went into that state when we had to flee or go great distances. It’s likely there to endure great suffering: lack of water, lack of food, all these things. They detached so they wouldn’t beat themselves down. It’s absolutely true in our consciousness, especially in cultures, it keeps moving forward. We have so much peer pressure, criticism, differences of ideas that are strong views, or religious views that are strongly enforced [where] you’re going to go hell or you’re going to be punished, or you’re not going to “this” and “that.” There is a relay in our psyche that’s almost a persona, a designed mind that is like the, what I call from South Park, jokingly, the “authoritah.”


As soon as you feel like you may be doing something or working towards something, there’s this authoritah, this judgment that’s made from this personality of all of these naysayers that starts shouting or raising these self-doubts. This is what I call sociological control. It’s a way to make you fit into society and to communicate on a level and act on a level that’s appropriate and approachable for everyone else. This is why many spiritual people really exile themselves from society or withdraw from it, so they can kind of have an expanse on their mind. What we relate to psychologically is very much alive in the mind once it’s in there, hence the reason for—I don’t want to keep going back to meditation, but if you talk about the flow or detachment. Detachment or flow, it’s the same, identical thing. It’s just terminology. It’s about learning to recognize that part of the mind and let go of this. You can allow if you will, the flow or to detach so whatever is there can resurface with intent.

Jared: Yeah. I think flow is a lot easier for people to get into. I think most people have gotten into that state because it’s fun. You’re doing something that you would want to do anyway and you get in that zone and it just kind of comes naturally. It’s harder to do that with meditation because you’re trying to get into that. You’re trying to like—[18:27]


Eric: I don’t think it’s harder with meditation. I think it’s—

Jared: Well, for people who are just starting out.


Eric: I think it’s terminology and I don’t want to sound arrogant but I’ll probably be called arrogant. I think it’s the wrong teacher. I think that anything very advanced, very sophisticated should be able to [be explained] and be taught very simply and be applicable. I think if people have an understanding when an idea is communicated to them, or a process, or a technique, they consistently have an “Aha, that makes sense!” If you have those, there’s no reason why you can’t have amazing results in a very short period of time.

Jared: Yeah, I think simplicity is the only way to get those “Aha” moments. So, with meditation, there’s this term “present,” to be present in the moment. As we know, the moment is very elusive and the present just went away right now. Like, we’re in the present now but now we’re not in the present. So, how would you describe the present and how would you describe getting in the present, being in the present? What does that mean to you? [19:21]


Eric: Well, first of all, I think that when we hear these terms, we think of them as a singular place that we have to maintain. The truth is, I don’t see them as singular at all. I think it’s a communication breakdown of ancient teachings made into modern time by people who don’t really understand it. Being in the now is like the first gear of a car, basically second gear or third gear. We have to imagine we have many gears if we’re going to use this terminology. When you move into second gear—we’ll say first gear is everyday life, we call it “the Doe” in how I teach it. It’s kind of like you’re going to work. You don’t even remember driving to work, you’re just in your head. You’re just like, “Oh, I’m here.” This is just functioning. We have motor gears like karate, we [repeat] our movements and we don’t realize when life becomes [repetitive]. The things in our life become [repetitive], the socialness of our lives becomes [repetitive]. Therefore, we’re really not in the now. We’re just like machines. That’s how I see it.

To move out of that phase, you have to have self-awareness. That is to say, I decide to reflect on myself. “I have hands,” and you rotate your hands, you look at the palms, you look at your arms outstretched, coming in. You look at your legs, your feet. So, the more body awareness you have, you start to turn your mind inward because you’re reflecting at your body and then it starts saying, “Well, where am I inside of this body, by default?” What happens then is you start to become “in the now.” It’s a very quick way to get in the moment. As soon as you reflect on the body and you’re expanding hands and your hand’s reaching out, and you think about where you’re consciousness is up inside of the skull. [There are] actually two little light bulbs. It’s like there’s this little alien in there running this machine with arms and tentacles and everything if you think about it. Just by thinking like that, you realize you’re moving into the now, into the moment. Your awareness sharpens, there’s a little level of clarity all of a sudden. There’s different functioning. This is the second level to move towards the third.

The third level, now, we’ll go from being in the now or in the moment, being aware of what’s going on around you because it has that effect without you realizing it, to then decide whether you want to start moving into the third. The third, I call it an “altered state of awareness” or a “sharpened state of awareness,” which starts moving into what I would technically call a psychic state. It’s when your senses start to become keener than what they are. Your sense of smell starts to get a little sharper. Your sense of hearing is a little sharper. The sense of air moving on your skin becomes more aware because you’re in the now. This is a level of how much awareness you’re going to have so [there are] different levels to being in the now. It can move to a point where it starts to transition over to the next color, like a spectrum, slowly turning as green moves into blue or something. These are different states of consciousness.


Jared: When I started meditating, I just did like Youtube videos or whatever. I had no idea what I was doing. It took me a long time to realize some of the most basic ideas of meditation, one of those being that I am not my thoughts. I can detach from my thoughts. My thoughts are not me. That was a huge revelation. [22:45]


Eric: Just for the record, that is very confusing to someone who would be hearing that right now, that this is not where you’re at. To me, that’s like, “What the hell does that mean, ‘your thoughts aren’t you?’ Of course, they’re you!” No, they’re not, but this is where you have to have a level of psychological logic so you go, “Oh, wait a minute, I totally get it now.”

Jared: Yeah, being a psych major, I kind of had that understanding that your thoughts are just a stream of neurons and that’s in your brain. I think we all know that there’s something in us that goes beyond that. Whatever you want to call it, the spirit, the soul. It seems to connect us all together too and to connect us to that higher—[23:22]


Eric: I just want to say that I completely agree with you except for one point. I don’t think everybody feels that way and I don’t think everybody has that sensation or even bothers to reflect on it. I think that is a certain amount of the population and you clearly are one of those people, people who’re listening to this most likely are because they’re seeking it out. Other people have no interest, no connection, [and are in] no way, shape, or form interested in self-reflection or will even consider it. There’s a reason for that.


Jared: Do you think if they had a change of heart somehow, any person would be able to access that? [24:15]


Eric: Yes. I believe that you can convert yourself. If you want to, you can shift your mind, but it’s exposure and it comes down to data. Data is the single, defining element while we’re in an organic body, per se. Data is the music you hear, the people you’re around, the social effect, politics of your life, the religious aspects of your life, who introduced what kind of information [and] in what way. That becomes self-reflective based upon your consciousness, the biochemicals of your body. Are you a little bit angry? Are you a little bit happy? Are you an optimist? This is all decided by chemicals also, so it contributes to this perfect design of how you see yourself, but the data can move you in one direction or another. That’s a conversion point, so in your consciousness, if something is moving you towards a way of self-reflection, there is data being built from that perspective, that view. You’ve climbed a different hill than other people, so your view is different. Your [emotion] is going to be affected by what you see and that’s going to shape and mold your consciousness. I would say absolutely, it’s possible, but it doesn’t happen as much as we’d like to. I think that the passionate, loving side of us that wants to believe that, “Oh, no, everybody,” and then they just don’t want [anything] to do with it.

Jared: You talked about hormones affecting the body and I think that’s a good segue into the chakras. It’s said that each chakra is connected to a gland that produces hormones in your body and your thoughts will alter what hormones those glands release. Do you agree with that? [25:42]


Eric: I agree to a certain point, and then I disagree. It depends. It’s one thing to say that if you focus on this chakra, this is going to happen. I would say that you need to have an understanding of the monkey brain. You need to have an understanding of the Babbler. In other words, you need to have that clarity because, at the end of the day, chakras can absolutely affect your interior, your organs. [There are] many things that I teach and I’ll say to people, “When you start, you’re going to know. You’re going to taste like a metallic taste in the back of your tongue.” It’s kind of like a nine-volt battery touching the tip of your tongue, but you feel it about the size of two-half dollars in length or a half-dollar in length at the back of your tongue. It just starts off ever so slowly.

There’s also rushing effects of heat moving through you and sweating. These are all glandular [products]. This is all about electricity being created through the chemistry of the human body and of course glands expanding, [retracting], or producing more of a chemical. There’s absolutely a connection, but if your thoughts are not following the correct process of working with your chakra point, then you’re not going to get that result so you’re going to think, “Oh, it doesn’t work. I thought if I just press here, it’s going to work.”


Jared: How powerful do you think our thoughts are? [27:18]


Eric: I think thoughts are ultimately connected to the nature and aspect of God. I don’t believe in reality in the sense that everything is physical. I believe everything is more like the Matrix and I think that if we accept that as our highest truth—and it’s very hard, difficult to argue with—I think that all miracles that have ever taken place [are] a matter of consciousness invoking itself or reprogramming a small portion of reality. That’s my take on it. Thoughts are incredibly powerful on many, many levels. The most basic level is the power to make somebody feel depressed or happy, the quality of their life, the success of their life, whether they become wealthy or impoverished. You could be impoverished but with the right kind of thinking and psychologically thinking, motivationally, you can [maybe] get yourself out of that situation depending on where you’re born and what’s going on.

Your state of mind, on the simplest level, is going to dictate—and we know this already—your health. We know that your immune system goes up if you’re an optimist. We know it goes down if you’re a pessimist. You are affecting your entire inner universe. It can have a profound effect on the amount of time that you live on this Earth, the quality of life that you have. I think, on a spiritual level, it’s the ability to affect people both emotionally by your presence. Energy fields of people [will be] affected. People will feel up to about 32 feet, 64 feet between people, whether they feel drawn or a connection to you. They don’t have to hear you speak or anything, they just get a sense, and then it just goes into much more complex degrees to where you’re able to move into what I consider psychic arenas and telepathy. I don’t think anybody understands the terminology. It’s completely dead wrong and that’s why people are so confused when they hear terms like that. They think, “Oh, I’m going to hear terms in my head.” You can keep moving up that ladder to profound levels to where you’re seeing paranormal stuff that defies logic and science. I don’t think it defies logic or science, I just think science is catching up and they’re almost there now.


Jared: Yeah, so you talked about going up that ladder. I think people in our culture have all these self-limiting ideas that keep them down. I think it goes back to what you were talking about, “the authoritah,” the social construct that keeps us in place so that we don’t get too far out and shake the status quo or whatever. So, you can go up to these levels that people are like, “Oh, that’s superstition, that’s just not true.” How far do you think we can go with this? [29:35]


Eric: No limit.

Jared: Yeah, I don’t think there’s a limit.


Eric: No limit. I mean, there’s a whole lecture I did that took several days. I really decided to take an approach towards science. It really came down to—I don’t want to go into it too much because it’s very complicated. They were looking at photons of light and when we would try to observe it, it would stop doing what it was doing. When we stopped observing it, it would switch and split, per se. There’s no arguing that it’s happening and it’s directly connected to consciousness. It’s really the most finite level to reality. There’s a number of things out there like that. In the end, I think that we’re like a hive-collective of thought that holds it all together.

Our brain, the way that it perceives, nothing you see is what you really think you’re seeing. It’s all black inside your head. This is all reflected light, sound, everything that’s being made into these zeros and ones to your brain. When you really think about it, I just think anything is absolutely possible.


Jared: So, you’re going up that level, you’re going to that ethereal arena, whatever you want to call it. [31:21]


Eric: I mean, if you want me to be a little bit broader for you, I think it’s possible for what we would consider miracles. I don’t think they’re miracles but I think we’re going to be using space technology to fold space and disappear, reappear somewhere else once we have technology that can amplify thought. I think they will need thought. I think that there are certain miracles where people have been able to do miraculous things, whether it be walking through a wall or affecting an object from a distance or to any level. I think it’s limited by the collective mind that’s around it. It;s like holding together the Matrix to push against you.


Jared: I think the more you connect with your spiritual side, the more you can access those. [32:07]


Eric: Absolutely. The spiritual side is just simply you disconnecting from your organic side that is what we’re talking with.


Jared: You connect with your spiritual side. What does that look like per se? I know that’s a pretty broad question and you can answer that a lot of different ways. When you think about accessing your spiritual side, what comes to mind? What’s the greatest aspect of reaching your spiritual—[32:23]


Eric: That’s an extremely broad question. I think this falls into that spectrum. I often say to people, “Think of it like a light that’s a standing lamp on the floor. When you turn the light bulb, it gets brighter and brighter and brighter. When you turn it down, it gets lower and lower and lower. We are at the lowest setting of the dim light for what we understand in the nature of organic selves, or through our organic selves.

When you go into a deep meditation state, most people linger around a level of non-thought, that’s the achievement. They’re not moving in their mind, it’s just still. Therefore, it’s just quiet. When they come out, it allows them to maybe focus on stuff better and everything else. I think that if you push through that, you go through what I consider [to be] a psychic level. You turn on more parts of your brain that start to get into what we call telepathy, psychic phenomena, empathetic abilities to feel other people’s sensory, psychometry to hold objects and get images because you’re not filling your head with your own images. You’re able to hold it steady without letting your mind wander to the left or to the right, which takes you thousands of miles off track.

You can move through these things and you utilize those skills internally, on yourself, which really isn’t yourself if you can hold yourself in a meditative state of consciousness. This, now, starts making this frequency more illuminated. It’s like you’re turning this inner dial up. Eventually, you start moving your mind through time, through space. You can literally stop almost anywhere. It’s how far you’re able to go before, like Star Trek, the ship starts to rattle. You have to constantly be working and developing your inner skills of consciousness. Ultimately, you go through what we consider the “Planes of Light.” You begin to see, from seeing nothing, blackness, to almost like the sun rising on the horizon at night. You think you see illumination starting and before you know it, it’s getting brighter and brighter. All of a sudden, you see this red hue as if the sun were setting, but it’s rising. You see what you identify with light and color. There’s a part of you that realizes you don’t really have eyes. There’s another part of you that realizes that it’s an entire environment like you can see 180 completely around you.


Your mind begins to fight with itself because it wants to see what’s in front of it as if you were in a body, and this snaps you back out of it, the second you reflect on anything. If you can accept it and hold yourself still and not turn on yourself in a way, to observe it, to understand it, then you move into deep levels of the Planes of Light which become like these vast ribbons of cloth or silk or something. They’re transparent but it’s like fog layers made of color, very soft pastel, beautifully illuminated. They’re vast and everything kind of has this level of a whitish backdrop, but [there are] these massive layers of color. To explain the size, it’s like watching a circus of the ocean [moving] through the air, but you can see other oceans moving off edges, per se, and they’re moving.

If you move through that, then you move into what I call “God consciousness.” God consciousness is this—In this process, you’re still fulfilling what I call the emptiness in your chest. It’s this wanting desire to almost, like something’s missing from you. Any White Cell, any spiritual person feels this. This is what drives us. It’s like this connection to the Universe that we’re trying to fulfill like it’s calling us. It drives us crazy. We seek it our whole life. It exhausts us. There in this process, this starts to feel more fulfilled, most satisfied. It’s almost like “I’m home,” or “I’m driving into my hometown after being away for a decade or something.” Eventually, you ultimately, if you’re alive and stuff, become completely consumed by this frequency of universe, God if you will, love if you will. It’s the most blissful, ecstatic feeling that you can relate to, still in an organic body, until you just totally disconnect from yourself. Even then, it’s a very remote part of you that you’re very of. Imagine a blanket, if it were wet as if it were heavy but [without] water in it, not cold, not hot, [as if] each little speck of it was a ringing vibration. It’s like millions and millions of little tiny specks of vibration made into a giant heavy fabric that was lied on your body. It became you. It fits in you almost. It’s like a super hug. It’s like there’s this deep, deep love of completion, satisfaction. There’s no more life or death. There’s no more anguish or frustration, no more trying or doing or anything, it’s just complete, ultimate returning to, becoming part of something that you always were. It’s deeply satisfying, deeply healing. You ultimately realize that you now have to go back to your body, so it’s like a life-death experience in some ways, I suppose.


This, of course, has an effect or changes you. As the Doe works on you, you realize the Doe is powerful too and you start to forget that. Hence, you constantly are maintaining yourself because you’re in an environment that you must swim [in]. You don’t have a choice. In the end, to go beyond that is, in an organic self, difficult. It would be extremely hard to explain and I’ve done my best as far as that goes. Throughout this entire process, you have to understand that [there are] lefts and rights that you can take. You don’t really just move to a certain state and stay there. Your mind never stops being inquisitive. You want to meet other intelligences. You want to explore beyond your means. You have epiphanies. When you realize that you’re somewhere else, you start thinking like a human being. It snaps you out like a rubber band. It slams you back down.

I often say that when people land there, they do this jump. There’s a part of you that disconnects from the body and when you think about the body, it slaps down. It all happens in tenths of seconds. It feels very similar to that. When you are able to let go and let your mind move out, the idea is not to think about your body or think about what you’re experiencing because that’s thought.

If you can refrain from that and you’re kung fu is good with your mind, through your practice, then you’re able to think without thinking. I explain and I teach this so that it makes sense. Therefore, your inquisitive mind wants to see things and then all of a sudden you get a sense that there’s something to your left and something to your right if you can think like that.

When you do, you start to see what is a mirage. That mirage starts to get more and more defined as you begin to observe it. If you start to define, “Do I see a building? Do I see water? Do I see a tree,” it stops instantly. If you can not have the verbal thought but still have the consciousness of wanting to know that, you know it’s a tree, you know it’s a building, it starts to become very HD. You’re able to move more skill, more kung fu skill. It allows you to move through that region of whatever you’re seeing. This is kind of a level of remote viewing.


Jared: It’s like accessing your higher knowledge— [40:08]

Eric: That’s exactly what it is.

Jared: Instead of thinking with your brain and neurons, you’re thinking with that higher knowledge?


Eric: You’ll always be thinking, in part, with your neurons and your brain because it’s a conduit. I explain to people that, as long as you’re in an organic body, it’s absolutely necessary.

Jared: It’s the mind-body connection.


Eric: Yes. You’ve made an agreement to have a relationship, in a sense, with your organic self, which is made out of billions and trillions of protozoan organisms. You are basically God to your inner universe, hence the whole effect with negative/positive thoughts affecting your immune system and everything else. You can’t just let that go 100%. You can let it automate and that’s a better word that allows people to go further out. The second you say “let go,” people have a fear of death and that’s what keeps them stuck in not having any of these experiences.

It’s almost like you have to reinvent the terminology and trust levels with yourself to know that nothing is going to happen to you. Once you can really believe that, you can go deeper and wider in your experiences, profoundly. At the end of the day, you will always have this way of tucking away that information to remember it’s still relaying, it’s still processing. As I was saying before, I often say that we have cell phones in here, and if somebody were to call this room from Germany or from Russia or from China or from Japan, everybody’s cell phone would have the frequency of that specific call [moving] through globally, as long as [there are] towers within reason. Only yours will decipher it. Deciphering comes out of the technology in it so it’s able to translate that.

My computer may not be able to get a cell phone call. My car stereo will not get a cell phone call, but it will get—and specifically—radio stations where my phone may not, or my computer. Your brain is basically the conduit of processing information on higher levels. This is why I often say when you have dreams and you wake up, you lose a lot of that data. It’s not able to compress it and park it a lot. In some case, it can. It depends. It’s much the same way. People who LSD, hallucinogenic drugs, they’ll have the profound epiphanies, these huge experiences, and then when you ask them later they’re like, “I barely remember most of it. I just remember having the revelation. I don’t remember how I got there.” It’s like the brain wasn’t able to retain or hold the information because—


I teach that there’s a secondary layer of static energy around your brain almost, and it encompasses your whole body, really. It’s another intelligence. [There are] three intelligences. In essence, it’s able to do that but if you want to use that in your organic form, then you have to find an agreeable process to let that, more or less, be kept or structuralized in your organic brain, biochemically stored if you will. You have to understand how to let that process happen in your own mind.

Jared: The way you described that kind of sounds like the crown chakra. It’s above your brain kind of, and it accesses you to that “Godhead,” is how it’s kind of described. You’ve brought up reaching that god-mind state or however you wanna describe it. How would you describe God? What do you think God is? [43:15]


Eric: This is a very touchy subject because a lot of people have an idea of what God is. Whether they admit it or not, they have an expectation.


Jared: I think a lot of that is the social—getting back to that authoritah thing—God is the authoritah in a lot of people’s lives.

Eric: When someone asks me that question, I tend to step back and I have to kind of assess what level of answer I’m going to give. There’s always level one, two, three, maybe even level twenty. I think that God is an ever-present energy. I think most people can understand that. When you take it to a notch further, I say it’s kind of like wifi everywhere but way better. It goes through the whole universe and doesn’t need towers. It’s very similar to the organic body. Your body is communicating constantly with all the cells and structures. It’s got wins and losses and you’re constantly changing, just like the universe is doing. There’s a connectedness.

When people start to say, “I have this relationship with God and God talks to me,” or “I have angels,” or, “I have a guardian spirit,” or whatever, I have a little bit of trouble with that because they want to personalize God and I believe that there’s a personal relationship that’s too simplistic of an answer that I hear from them. I think that it’s better to say nothing, or they’re not going to want to listen and learn from you. It’s like it doesn’t fit in their box of how they want to see it. When you do that, you limit your level of gaining knowledge and experiences, if you will. I think people do that unconsciously. At the end of the day, I don’t think that God necessarily has a very strong relationship in our day-to-day lives. I don’t think it’s necessarily concerned with life or death as we see it. I would say then, “Why stops its relationship with humans? Why not have it go into the animal kingdom? Why not have it go into nature? Why not have it go into space to other forms of worlds and life where we know things have happened?”


I think the universe always sees life as life and that life is ever-changing, like organisms but on another level. Energy, if you will. If a body dies, it doesn’t really die, the energy simply transforms or if you’ve done good practice, you’re able to keep your energy together which is your consciousness. That’s what I truly think is a true soul. It’s able to migrate like an organism through water looking for another host per se. If you do not learn to control that energy while you have the option to self-reflect and give birth to a whole other you, then you dissipate that consciousness into larger organisms the same way that you do. You eat animals. You eat plants. You eat vegetation. You take the structure of that, to some degree, into you. In some ways, you might even take thoughts and information that’s kind of in the cell structure. It depends on how it’s processed per se.


I see the universe operating consistently and it’s not judgmental saying, “This is a special level.” The idea is that if you can attain enough self-awareness, you change the system for yourself and that’s enlightenment. That’s self-awareness.


Jared: I think that’s how spirituality and science can merge together. [47:04]


Eric: I agree.


Jared: You have this creator, the source of the energy of the life and of course, it’s more concerned with that spiritual well-being, livelihood, than the livelihood of the material that it’s inside. It makes a lot of sense that God is nature, God is the laws of nature and that’s how they kind of merry together.


Eric: I don’t know if I’d go as far as to say God is the law of nature. I would say that your level to understand something—and this is very difficult to explain to people, so I don’t want to insult them—but it’s based upon your level of intellect by which you can [interpret] what is presented to you. When things start to get too complex, it’s like explaining to somebody very young how an airplane actually uses aerodynamics to fly. [They] just think it’s somehow staying up there. [They] can understand flight, [they] can understand what it’s doing to a certain degree, but maybe not all the aspects of it.

When one starts talking about God, I would say that I don’t think God would necessarily—When you say nature and what governs it, I would say that nature is different on every single world or planet, if there’s life. Even if there’s not life, [there are] aspects to it. Each is uniquely different based on the size of planet, the gravitational pull on it. The fundamental laws are probably very much similar depending on what atmosphere is there, so on and so forth.


Now, maybe I’m overthinking it, but this is where I get into these Catch-22’s where somebody will email me and say, “Well, Eric, how can you say that God is the law of nature? Don’t you think that law would change? How does that make sense?”

There’s always somebody out there who wants to throw a wrench in the system and it’s just like, “Ahh! Which way should I explain it, on what level?” I think that the laws of the universe are designed by the universe, but they’re ultimately designed to be ever self-improving and changing and applicable. I think that God is bored to death and God created the universe so that it was amused. All of it is part of God really being—I don’t want to say entertained but a level of thinking. I think that if you were God, if you were the totality of the universe and you were all that existed, what do you do? As far as we can understand, you want to be mentally stimulated. You need to think. You need to have something like, “Aha!” When you’re super intelligent, super calculated, super capable, that level needs a certain significant amount of data to start becoming interesting, if you want to look at it from a human perspective. That’s the other cliche that’s in this. Trying to come at it from an aspect that I think others can understand is that I think God is very aware of everything that’s happening and it’s observing. It’s waiting for “Aha” moments and most of the time there’s no “aha’s,” but once in awhile we probably do something unique or something unique happens in the universe. It’s kind of hoping to learn something or see something that’s new or different.

I think that it’s definitely integrated. I think that there are pros and cons like the body. There are things that want to destroy what he’s created and loves deeply. There are elements of danger and there are elements of surprise and growth, which I think it really wants. I think it’s incredibly complex.


Jared: Love is arguably the most important concept to humanity. It shows itself everywhere. The majority of songs have the word “love” in them. Every spiritual text or religious text has love all over it. Every story is about love, people finding each other. There’s all these different realms of love, all these different ideas of what love is that people discuss. It’s like a never ending topic. What do you think that love is? I know this is another broad question. [50:48]


Eric: No, it’s a very simple one. It’s completion.


Jared: I think it should be simple but I think people over-complicate it. What do you think love is? Also, what do you think God’s connection to love is?


Eric: I think love is a need to feel complete and we go through life feeling a sense of incompleteness like there’s something else we need. Even when we think we find it, we ultimately decide at some point, “Well, this isn’t completely fulfilling me anymore.” The complete fulfillment is to find aspects of love in different ways and measures, which is companionship, acceptance, compassion, nurturing. We get this from [youth] on. I often hear that if a baby doesn’t get touched in x amount of time, it’ll die. I don’t know how true that is but I would lean towards the fact that it’s a necessity to have this interaction. It’s a need. I think ultimately what’s behind it is returning back to God and to have a loving, accepting—If you really think about it, love is detachment. It’s really the aspects of spirituality in the sense of reaching a higher state, no matter what religion, no matter what philosophy. You’re ultimately, in the end, seeking God. You’re ultimately, in the end, looking for that completion in you that I was talking about earlier.

We go through processes, depending on who you are, that [you] need a companion to find that. That’s the first reasonable level. If that companion has it, it’s wonderful. All of a sudden, the biochemicals wear off and you’re like, “Oh, now I’m not feeling that. I need it from somewhere else. Maybe I need children to feel that. Maybe I need—”

Ultimately, you’re going to have levels of love because the aspect of God I think is in almost anything if you choose to see it and accept it. I think, in the end, what you see as love in someone is really their connection to the universe and you’re seeing that part of them within that person, which is a wonderful thing because it’s part of them. Ultimately, it’s an exploration to return back to what you came from.


Jared: So, religion is obviously a touchy subject but, what do you think—I mean, obviously it’s one of the greatest—[53:25]


Eric: One of the greatest things that’s damaged society? I would say yes.


Jared: Right. It’s one of humanity’s most profound works if you will. You know, we’re always—What do you think is the purpose of religion and what do you think are some of the pros and cons?


Eric: [There are] lot of cons and [there are] some pros. Religion is not all bad, it’s really the people who are involved with it that begin to corrupt it. Most of them probably start off with good intentions. What you have is something that starts off with wanting to be compassionate and more people get on board. It starts to be about exploiting, getting money, power, prestige, influence over kingdoms and kings and queens and empires. This is all an exploitation of what I believe is that [human] need to fill that space in your chest. The calling of the universe is constantly there for all people if they want to feel it or hear it. What we lack as the human race is a manual that says, “Here are all your answers. Don’t go down this road. Don’t go down this. This is going to get you there.” It’s more of a matter of choice but it’s also a matter of intelligence and thinking and making the right decisions. I think that’s what the universe is kind of observing.

I see many religions exploiting and recognizing this need in human beings to find this completion or connection and they just don’t have an answer. I don’t think anybody starts off having answers, no matter how strong that calling is. In some people, it’s stronger than others. They just simply know, “Religion is not for me.” Other people don’t have that. They’re not evolved to that level consciously or spiritually. It just means that if you believe in reincarnation, you came in stronger, so you’ve already sorted that. If you haven’t, you’re given a recipe book and you’re told, “This is how you do things. This is what you do. This is what you think. This is the only thing you read.” It becomes your bubble. It becomes your values, your ideas, how you see stuff. You’re in a bubble within a bigger bubble of society.

It has fear to govern you from wandering off and learning new things and coming to your own conclusions. It does your thinking for you. If you ask me, it’s “my team versus your team” mentality and in the process, this has spurred wars, killed millions of people. It’s been more awful than good in the end. Instead of unifying the world as one species, mankind, it’s really kept us very separated. If you don’t agree with my ideas, it’s something where they aggressively want to suppress you. I like to think of religion and spirituality as two different things. I’m spiritual but I’m not religious.


Jared: Right. I think religion was made out of the desire for spirituality and that desire for that connection to God.

Eric: Absolutely. It’s something that somebody saw, tried to give answers, and then other people railroaded it, exploited it, and made it into what it was.

Jared: Yeah, people, prolific figures who came to certain realizations, truths that they gave to others who followed. Back to the chakras, there’s this idea of subtle energy and the aura and that they’re connected with the chakra. What do you think about that? What’s your take on the whole aura? [56:40]


Eric: I absolutely believe the aura is very real. The biggest thing that upsets me is when people, if I ask them if they can see the aura, they’ll say “No,” or they’ll say, “Yes, I can see the aura.” I’ll go, “Well, what does it look like,” and they’ll go, “Well, it’s this glow around you and everything else.” I’m saying, “You really don’t see it with your eyes,” and they’re like “No, I kind of envision it.” I’m like, “You do know you can see it with your eyes just like you can see a bookcase, a chair, a dog, a cat with your eyes?” They’re like, “I don’t know. Yeah, I think.”

I don’t know why there’s such a need for people to, what I call “fake it.” It’s like they don’t want to be wrong or to be outed as being like you don’t have this skill or that skill or something. It’s just absurd because that’s what crystallizes you spiritually. It’s very frustrating for me. I believe in the aura because I can see the aura. I teach people all day long how to see the aura. I taught this other person in the room how to see auras. I teach hundreds of people to see the aura. In fact, I can show multi-levels of the aura. I could show you how to see an aura if you don’t know how to see an aura, in probably three minutes or less.

For me, it’s very real. To me, it’s as real as me saying, “Well, the chair’s not real,” but there I am knocking it. I can distinguish it with one of my senses. That’s a beginning start and therefore, if you can see the aura, I always say—It’s very dismissive to my students because it’s one of the first things we teach. After a while, they don’t even think about it anymore. They’re just like, “Oh, it’s the aura.” I’m like, “No, it is a foundation to build you psychologically to move in the right direction, because you’re told that it’s maybe there, it’s maybe not, just like everything else.” Here, you have something that you can relate to, and psychologically, your brain says, “I can’t deny what I’m observing. I can’t deny that it’s not there.” You have to use that as your springboard to move up to the next level of experiences and keep moving your way up. That’s what I do with people. It’s that confidence that breaks that governor down and allows you to expand and unfurl your consciousness and have profound experiences.


The aura is energy. it ‘s a layer of your consciousness, your neural system in your body, your little magnetic field of your body if you will. It’s the nuclear plant of energy that’s emanating from creating life in your body, from eating food and stuff. It’s also the converging point and radiating out any level creating what I consider a second body, what some people would deem as the soul.


I think—and I’ve said this before and people have a knee-jerk reaction—that not everybody has a soul. I think you have an aura, but that doesn’t mean you work with that energy to create another vessel for your consciousness to exist outside of your body. When people do not develop that, when they die, I think science would say that your body decomposes. It goes back to the Earth and all of your electricity and energy dissipates or gets absorbed into something else.


My answer is that the planet is a living organism, just like the cells in your body sacrifice their experience for you through their neural system. Something died and electrically carried that soul to your brain. Like a sugar cube in the ocean, it became part of your awareness and it’s happening [at] a very fast, intense rate, constantly. There’s always things living and dying, surrendering their data to you as a bigger collective, as most living beings will to the Earth, and the solar systems will to the galaxies, and the galaxies to the universe. That’s God. It’s a living organism.

To become separate from that, to become more independent, to exist in the massive organism, you need self-reflection. That means that you are aware of the aura, you are aware of consciousness, you’re aware that it’s static zeroes and ones if you will. You start to train it or control it to become a structure of energy that when you leave your organic body, it’s still holding you together. If the wind blows, it’s more like a bubble that doesn’t pop. You can control it in a way but it’s not really a bubble. Most people, I think, are like smoke. When the wind comes, it dissipates into this bigger field. You’re able to keep yourself together, your consciousness. This is a body. This is a soul. This is the achievement of a life’s work of self-reflection.


The aura holds all of those things for me. Everything has an aura. Every object has an aura and you can see it with your eyes because it absorbs energy. I often say it’s kind of like a little sponge and if you pour milk into the sponge drip by drip, you won’t see it radiating off. Eventually, it will swell and then it’ll start dripping the milk off of it. Everything has an aura because it’s absorbing heat, light, this conversation. It’s not echoing. It’s being absorbed as a form of energy to the entire environment.


Everything, in a sense, has a kind of energy emanating from it, no matter what it is. Living things, a dog, cat, planet, human beings, anything that’s able to organize thought on a certain level, the energy begins to differ a bit. It gets more complex or different, in a way. It’s programmable more so. [There are] different kinds of aura energy but the aura’s everywhere and the aura can extend out. [There are] layers. The closest layer is about an inch that comes off of you, give or take. It can reduce down or extend out depending. It actually extends out to about 32 feet, [as a] rule of thumb. As it moves out, it becomes a little more difficult to see because it’s like spectrum changing. It’s like little tentacles all around you, so that’s when you’re at a party or something [and] you really can feel everybody. There’s somebody unique or special that comes in and you just know you want to turn and there’s something there, looking. That’s because these two fields actually are communicating on a subconscious level.


Jared: It’s kind of like when somebody is looking at you and you can feel it? [63:02]


Eric: Yeah. Their consciousness is on you but your energy is moving behind you as well as forward, so those two energies go on. There’s this sense of knowing and that’s data-sharing.


Jared: So, it goes around 32 feet?


Eric: Around 32, but there’s no limit to it.


Jared: Yeah, I was about to ask.

Eric: If you understand enough, you start to make it go into “wifi,” and if you—The problem with human beings is we think of ourselves as individual. We walk around on two feet. We’re limited by our body. That’s how we think.


Jared: We think of what we can see.

Eric: The whole idea of inner reflection is to detach that kind of thinking and find other ways. When you start to do that and start defining yourself as an individual in an organic body, then all of a sudden, you start to get impressions and knowledge. With practice, we’re able to control it. It’s like wifi. You’re part of a bigger living organism, it’s just how you want to look at that. It’s like saying, “Is your arm you?” The answer is no. It’s made out of billions of living organisms that you’re hot-wired in and they share data with you.


Each little cell is aware of other parts of you through some big collective, sharing information. I don’t see my role any [differently], I just see it as layers. There’s the Gaia level, which I think is the level of the planet being an organism. Everybody on it is just a living organism within it, just like your body. It’s just macro/micro, macro/micro, macro/micro. We’re just bigger and smaller levels of what level you go on. You dial into what I call the Gaia mind and you can move onto something bigger. You can move into the solar system mind. It’s a kind of server of information in there and it’s only accessible if you approach it a certain way. It goes on, of course, to the universe which is God.


Jared: I think our society is moving toward this direction of apathy, you could say, especially for our spirituality. I know, especially in my generation, very few people think about religion, want anything to do with religion. Some try to move towards spirituality and just trying to access their spirituality, but a lot of them just don’t want anything to do with it. Do you think that we’re moving towards a complete denial of our spirituality as a culture? [1:04:46]


Eric: This kind of thinking has always existed. It’s just a matter of really looking at it and seeing that. If you were to go back in time, lower the population, then lower the expectation of people you meet per ratio. I think that in order for the planet to exist, just like your body—Here we go with the Red Cell/White Cell thing. This is where I’ve got to brace myself. Here we go, I’ll lay it on you.

Your body, if you had to go down to your white cells and red cells is predominantly red cells. It has a very small amount of white cells. If there was an increase of white cells, abundantly, and less red, what happens to the ecosystem of your body? You’re going to get sick and die. You need—I hate using this word—workers. Somebody has to maintain the wounds and deterioration of your body the best they can as it’s progressing through time. In this world, we need people to constantly be bees, in a sense, harvesting, working on fixing bridges, building structures, repairing structures, maintenance. There is a relationship to the planet as a living organism and it needs people to live, experience, and die for it to garner knowledge on its level as an organism.

If it doesn’t have that and everybody attains a level of consciousness that does not move on, then you get into different variations of issues. I see the planet as a living organism. That means there has to be an element to it, a percentage, that lives and dies, contributing to it. If everything had a soul in your body and didn’t contribute its information, because that’s what it is, then you wouldn’t be able to exist. Do you follow me?

You don’t see it that way and we want to have empathy for us as individuals and say, “Oh no, we have a soul and we go to heaven.” Sure, I don’t want to be a jerk, but at the end of the day, I’m kind of a scientist/spiritualist and I just want the truth. I don’t want to candy coat it. I just want the truth. My truth is that God exists but it’s not something that you’re just given as a privilege. It’s something you earn. A lot of people don’t want to do the work. At the end of the day, I think that what you’re seeing is perfectly what has always been. There will be people who don’t—and I’ve said this before—don’t give a rat’s ass about self-reflecting, spirituality, or anything. They’re not designed for it, no different than a red cell isn’t specifically designed to do the labors of a white cell in your body, nor a white cell to do the labors of the red. Yet, they work with each other. They’re very similar if you were to look at a distance quickly. A white cell will identify what a virus is. It will gather other white cells together before it makes a move on it. Red cells will just walk up to it, “doh dee doh dee doh dee doh,” and I don’t know, like a dinosaur, eats its. There’s not an awareness of that.

I think that there are people that have the mutant gene if you will, and there are people who don’t. There are plenty of people who have that gene who become the victim of religion, the victim of other methods of spiritual teaching if you will. Those percentages get lower and lower until you get to somebody who evolves to what I call Supercell White Cells, that we actually know are in the body also. Ironically, they carry the data of other battles they’ve been in through history, through humanity, that you got genetically passed onto you. They will resurface at the critical moment after the main white cells fail. I don’t see a huge leap in difference. It’s just a matter of when one says, “Well, we’re human beings, how can that be accurate?” You have to have a little stretch in your thinking.

Jared: Right.

Eric: That’s how I see it, so there’s a part of me that wishes that all humanity could achieve a level of “White Cellness,” but you have to understand something. We could do that, but there are dynamics to evolution that are in play that weed out what a weaker generation is versus a stronger one when we look at nature. When we look at us, we’ve already done this through medicine by extending our life and everything. I could go on forever, I don’t know if it’s a good time to really put this out. I have hours and hours of lectures on different stuff. At the end of the day, I hate to say it’s a necessary evil in a way but if the planet is an organism, then it needs contribution to it as an expanding intelligence, no more and no less than you do. I don’t think there’s a difference. All I can hope is that humanity will rise with a level of compassion, love, and the people who have an effect on that are going to be unique people. Why can’t there be? There are people who are driven to be great musicians, poets, scientists, actors. Other people rise to other stuff, other people don’t. They just feel passionate about it but they lead and then they affect society in different ways through their tools of contributing to society. I think advanced spiritual people have an effect, greatly. I think we’re like Noids. We broadcast a frequency out and it has an effect on the psyche of other people.


Jared: Yeah, I agree. I think everybody has the capacity to get to that point. Everybody has the capacity to become whatever they want to be, it just comes down to practice, dedication, and a passion for it.


Eric: That is how good you get at it. I think there are people who have an interest but they’re going down the wrong road or they, in the end, lack the ability to focus. At the end of the day, it comes down to experiences. Show me something. Show me, show me, show. That is how I base the principle of what I teach. I believe in [giving] a person experiences that are worth a thousand books. If they have that experience, then they’re ready to move onto the next thing. If they don’t have an experience, then they’re dismissive because proof is experience. That’s the end of the day, what it’s coming down to. I think that we’re getting to a more logical level of society. We have the internet. We can Google something in two seconds and get information. 90% of it is the wrong information.


Jared: Yeah, it’s the age of information.


Eric: It’s people who put their ideas. I mean, Wiki online, that’s really everybody’s contribution of data. They can make it go any way they want. You have haters that can move it in the direction of hate. You have people who are more honest who’re going to move it that way. It’s like everything is controlled over which majority has the most energy to put into it and that starts to be the winning psyche. So, I have issues with the internet and data. At the end of the day, there’s a lot of good information on there also. It’s data driven and less experiential. I think that’s what it comes down to. People want the information, the “ooh,” the “ahh,” but when it comes down to practicing good form, that’s where they lack.

Jared: Yeah. You could spend your entire life learning something but if there’s no application, you’re not going to get anywhere with it.


Eric: I think you’d be surprised how many people just want the information.

Jared: Yeah, I think it comes down to—Just look at our schooling. Tests are becoming the pinnacle of success. You have to learn this information and regurgitate it so that you get an A so you can go to college and go to grad school and get a good job. There’s no application in that.. You are just in lectures until you’re 30 and then you try to get a job and apply that. Obviously, it depends on the career that you’re going towards but it starts at a very young age where we’re taught that you have to learn things and regurgitate them.


Eric: I think that that’s always been around, it’s just taken on new forms and methods. I think that if you were in Europe before there was America, you were told at a young age that you’re going to be like your parents. You’re going to be a shoemaker. You’re going to be a cobbler.


Jared: Yeah, that’s true. I think that’s the authoritah again, whatever society—


Eric: Right. I think that’s a necessity for the organism as an evolving planet. That’s how we’re made. It’s like a honey bee can’t just all of a sudden stop what it’s doing. It has a certain role, a certain job. I think that we make it frustrating with that process, but I don’t think of it as selfishness, but I often say to students, “Stop trying to fix everybody. Fix yourself.” When you fix yourself and you’ve got yourself just right, then you can help everybody instead of just a few. There’s going to always be that battle where you have to understand that other people will never see it the way that you see it unless you meet your own kind of people and you create or enter into a society that’s learned to be a subculture within society. That’s how you find your shelter. This is what religion has done also and I think this is where the good part of religion is. When people are like, “I’m not finding it, “ it’s the best thing to settle towards. They find a religion that’s as close to what they would ideally want and then they adapt it to that thinking.

I think that, as I grow older, there’s absolutely a level of wisdom in life that one acquires versus intelligence or knowledge that you have from the universe and you incorporate into it. I think that when you look at disasters in the world or you look at things, I think that people that are younger have a shorter length of memory to draw on to say that there have been other times in history like this. It seems new or intense or in their memory, they’ve never experienced anything like that. Even for adults who’ve lived longer, if you could go back a hundred years, three-hundred years, five-hundred years, thousands of years, you’d start seeing repetition in things. [There are] variations and extremeness like what’s going on now but if you go back just—Let’s say climate change. The planet used to be a lot hotter than it is now.

Jared: There was the Ice Age too.

Eric: Right. I’m not saying I don’t think human had a hand in it because I certainly think thing there’s a lot of elements that had a hand in it. I think that a lot of times, spiritually, I think the same thing is happening. You’re awakening, you’re searching for answers and you’re saying to yourself, “Wow, there’s a lot of people who just don’t care about this and it’s affecting my life and my world and everything.” This is the same argument you would’ve heard back in the 1960s or 1930s or 1900s or in other cultures going back a thousand years.


This divide has always existed and the sooner that you can recognize it is that the sooner you empower yourself because you can strategize better. You can decide whether you’re going to work on yourself and look at the world and find a way to adapt to it If you are consistently drawn into that debate, that’s energy, it takes energy from you to rationalize, “Why? Why? Why?” It’s so frustrating, instead of, “Oh, well, now I know why they act this way.”

Jared: Yeah. Definitely, history repeats itself. Would you argue that we’ve lost our spiritual way throughout the thousands of years if you look back at the religions where—[76:33]


Eric: I think that it’s an ever evolving thing. I don’t think we’ve lost ourselves or gained ourselves, I think [there are] transitions of beliefs and thinking. I think it’s often economically run if it’s a religion as the economics change or an area gets richer, the education gets better. Religion feeds off the poor because they have a lower education, so it depends on the religion. As a place gets wealthier, the intellect rises from education and you see that there’s still an interest in spirituality and religion, but it starts to transition slowly. The demands get higher. In the end, I think it’s an ever-changing thing.

From Hinduism to Buddhism to [Islam] to [Christianity], if you were to do a color map of the planet over hundreds of years, you’d see expansion rise, fall, blips coming up in different areas, rise, fall. I think that you would see different kinds of thinking. You would see the emergence of a new kind of thinking. You could say that’s a religion or a group thinking. The thing that’s interesting is if you go back into humanity and you watch the level of religion, one of the things that you can get a pulse of is without cultures ever meeting one another, they still began to unify into a single God concept, into moving from Gods. They would move that way. There was always this sense of other presence and I think that’s the most important part. That drove us to try to find answers. I think that’s going to continue and I do think that there’s a disconnect, I just think it’s a matter of us finding a way to interpret through our new intelligence, our new understanding, science, logic—the internet’s given that to us—to approach things.

I love science. I don’t want to say, “I’m the guy,” but I definitely feel like I’m the guy because I teach everything from quantum physics to string theory. I think they’re all united under the same thing, I just don’t adhere to religion or to the common denominator, “Everybody has a soul, everybody goes to heaven or hell.” That doesn’t make logic to me. If you want to be, per se, a Jedi, or you want to develop yourself to a level and you can have a greater understanding instead of this “New Age caca,” I call it, or this “religion caca,” then you’re going to achieve profound things.


Jared: Religion, as we’ve talked about, is just trying to attain that spiritual awakening. [1:19:13]


Eric: Well, they’re losing it and I don’t think they really gave anybody a spiritual way. I think they gave them a limited level of comfort and the idea that there are things in life bigger than you that you can’t control. That’s very scary.


Jared: Right, that’s the overarching theme of religion is trying to answer those questions. Like we were talking about, it’s always repeating itself throughout history. Nowadays, we’ve got certain things that we haven’t had before like weapons of mass destruction, where we can destroy the planet over a million times. We have all these conflicts that are really getting to a breaking point. Do you think we’ll eventually get to a place where we’ll have a unified—it doesn’t have to be a religion necessarily—but spiritual understanding? Or, unified kind of way of living that we all adhere to? [79:31]


Eric: Well, if I was younger I’d probably be optimistic in certain ways. I don’t want to sound like I’m getting to become a jaded old guy. I think that there are a lot of dynamics to life that we don’t understand in necessity. We want to think we understand it and it should be this way or that way. This may sound like a little bit of a stretch for you but imagine a pond. The pond has an ecosystem: frogs, flies, mosquitoes, larvae. There’s a whole cycle. If you begin to remove one of those things then you have a collapse of an ecosystem where something else is going to thrive and it’s probably going to throw everything off. Fortunately, there is this energy that constantly, eventually pushes everything towards an order to whatever it evolves to. That, to me, is this presence that I call, like God, the universe. There’s a level of collapse and chaos equalling death.


If you think of the god Kali or Shiva or whatever, there is this thing where they show them to the Westerners where this god is crushing skulls and bodies and it looks like it’s got the face and body of a demon, hissing with teeth and everything. The Buddhists are like, “Oh, no, no. This is a good thing.” It’s hard for us to understand this. Our thinking gets in the way.


What it comes down to is the same thing as a giant field for a farmer. The season has come and gone and he wants to plant seeds but it’s hard as a rock. He has to take this pitchfork-like thing and stab it in the ground to get air in the soil and loosen it up and soften it so you can put seeds in there. This process of stabbing in there, breaking it up, turning it to create something new from it, create an opportunity for life I think is the same thing that has to happen in the world. The strike, in some ways, create causation to make better things.


When I say to students of mine, “Imagine an island and on this island, it’s always 80 °F, there’s alway fruit that falls from the tree, there’s tons of vegetation. The fish jump out of the water and you can cook it. There’s never a storm. There’s new danger. There’s never anything. You can just walk around in a bikini all day and make love and eat. When you get hungry, it just happens to fall from a tree, bananas, fruits, whatever you want. The fish jumps out of the ocean into your lap.” If you went back a thousand years and said, “Has life evolved,” you probably wouldn’t see much of a change at all. Look at different parts of the world versus the [equatorial] civilizations and how they grew and expanded. Some people might say, “Well, there are cities there now.” Who traveled there and brought that technology that was developed somewhere else? It’s more in the areas where it’s the “Goldilocks Zone,” I call it, where it’s cold weather but warm weather. You can build during the warm and be preparing for the cold. This gives a drive. It’s purpose, it’s thinking. How do we create better energy sources? How do we create better structures? How do we create better crops in a certain amount of time? There’s always a strive for improvement. I believe that’s part of evolution. This is something that’s been around, this drive, this presence. I think it’s part of the Force still. When one says to me, “As a whole, will we ever have complete peace on Earth?” We will have a greater level of peace but you’re always going to have people who think differently, and because there are differences, everybody is going to bump heads. I think it’s a necessary thing in certain ways, to move us to think better and smarter and consistently evolving ourselves. Once that happens, you could say we’re going to explore the universe. I can assure you there are going to be groups of people who say, “We don’t want to leave. It’s good here. We shouldn’t mess with the universe, otherwise, we’re going to bring aliens here to do bad things.”

One of the things I thought was very interesting is a few years ago, I read an article on the human brain. They studied people and they found that Republicans brains were a little bit different than Democrats. I went, “Well, it’ll never end.” The only way we’re going to really unify—and I’ve said this for over twenty years—is if there is a giant meteorite that we know is going to take out the planet and we all have to unite and be like, “Yo, brother!” It’s not going to be like, “Hey, you’re this race or that race.” We’re going to get along famously, “Let’s all get our technology together and let’s solve this problem.” Or, if it’s an alien race, they’re not going down there saying, “Oh, we only like this species of human.” They’re going to say, “You’re just all the human race and we’re going to get rid of you.” We’re going to unite real fast and forget real fast any racism, any issues, any color of skin. That’s going to be a non-issue.


Jared: So, Independence Day? That’s what that movie’s about.

Eric: Exactly and that is the highest truth. How did that come to be, if that happens? Was it passive? Do you see what I’m saying? It’s fear and having to deal with a situation that’s bigger than us rather than on one landmass versus another landmass.

Jared: Yeah, there’s has to be that tension to have the desire to dissipate that tension.


Eric: …to get over your BS, to get over your issues and to see the qualities in people that you want to see to survive. It’s built in us. Even if aliens came down and they were super peaceful, if you think we’re not going to fight with one another, you’re crazy. There are going to be some people saying, “It’s the devil coming down.” There are going to be other groups that say, “Oh, they’re too yellow looking in skin, so they’re going to side with the Asians and not us. We have to be prepared for that.” It seems to be that sometimes a threat is greater than a passive good thing. It’s like we’re a bunch of monkies. We just don’t get it. The smart, intelligent people will, but unfortunately, they don’t run the world always. I don’t think it’s ever going to end, it’s just a matter of who’s going to have the “Mustafa stick” and just kind of give everybody a good whack and say, “C’mon, get some sense into you now. Who’s the most level? Who’s the most connected to it? They who are the most connected to the universe will probably have the biggest stick eventually.


Jared: I would agree with that, definitely. I grew up in a Christian home and my parents were always great about having us—me and my brothers—create our own faith, explore and figure out what we believe. I always really appreciated that. I’ve taken my ideas a lot further than my brothers. They’re very much still in the Christian bubble. I’ve thought a lot about heaven and hell because it never really quite rung true with me, the way that they described it. So, I want to describe to you what my interpretation of heaven and hell are and see what you think about that. [1:26:30]


Eric: Okay.


Jared: I don’t think that there is a hell. I think that an all-loving creator would not create a place where the people who didn’t do what he wanted would burn in hell and be forever tortured. An all-loving god, I don’t think would do that. It says in the Bible that when we die, that God, our soul will be with him. So, our spirit will be back to the original source basically. So, what I think hell is, the soul or the spirit—or maybe it doesn’t even come to fruition like what you’re talking about—is just severed from that source and ceases. So, hell is just non-existence. It talks about the burning like a fire, I see that as like the soul ceasing to exist. It’s not forever tortured in that fire, it’s just done once it’s in there. So, that’s what I think hell is. I think heaven is here. I think it’s all around us. I think we access it when we understand that God is all around us and we can access him and we can be one with that divine source that created our spirit. If we die, our spirit will be one with that spirit and we will be back in our original place.


Eric: Well…I don’t believe in heaven in a religious way and I don’t believe in hell in a religious way. I think that there is something, to a level, likened to it in a way, and I think that’s why human beings are always trying to define what they sense or feel. They give it very human terminology. I have said from early on, if you die and go to heaven, exactly what happens there? How does heaven stay up in heaven? Is it on Disney rockets, a Disney castle? I’m being a bit sarcastic.

Jared: And hell is below us.


Eric: These two things, in my opinion, were used to control a very low-educated society and create fear and desire in them. That is the molding of which we all sense, and somebody started to create a structure from that, to what would ideally be the best way to control the human race. In some way, it was very good because it helped with living better instead of pooping where we eat. It created customs that were actually more homogenous to the health and well-being of our societies. There were cleansing practices created. It depends on how far you go back, even before Christianity, where it evolved from. It’s all from something else that it evolved. It was smart people who understood that people would be drawn to these things and incorporated better habits and customs and religious for the most part, not always. It evolved into ideas, and how do you do something—If you create a God out of a statue, you’re just going to knock it over when you’re not happy with it. If you make a God that’s untouchable and all-powerful and you keep escalating it on a level where you can’t whack him, you can’t—It’s not physical, what can you do?

Now, you’ve ultimately created the best thing. If we get mad at it, it’s not like we can tip over the statue and say, “Oh, we’ll build a new one.” Hell is the same concept. There’s no way to rip it down, there’s no way to challenge it other than to good and the rules by which you need to live by in order to do any harm to the dark. I think it’s a great system if you want to control people in that aspect. It’s done wonders to society but it’s also been the worst thing for society. The question is: Do I believe in a heaven or hell?

First of all, I would say: What is the real question at the root of everything? The root of the question is: What is the meaning of life? I used to joke around when I used to drink a lot of Diet Coke and I would say it’s Diet Coke. All joking aside, the meaning of life is to experience, period. The universe, God, call it whatever you want, wants us to live life. It wants us to experience. It wants us to smell the roses and flowers. It wants us to feel the dew petals underneath our feet. It wants us to feel the sunshine on our face. It wants us to feel a butterfly walking on our nose. Not just it walking on our nose, but the sensation, the wonder of the colors, the connection, the everything. It also wants us to experience fear and shame and humiliation so that we can relate to other people in acts of kindness. I, too, have felt fear like this and I can relate to that. I wouldn’t want to be uncomfortable and I would want somebody to reach out and help me. I need to be that person. To live is to experience. To experience is the will of the universe, no matter where it is. It wants you to go out and have new experiences. If you look at nature, it’s constantly adapting to new experiences to an ever-changing environment.

Why does everything change? There’s a reason. It wants us to have to adapt, but if it was a computer program, that’s precisely what it wants us to do. If reality is an illusion, it’s still here. So, what is the functioning behind it that makes it all function? It’s not just frozen and we’re all not moving. It’s because we’re moving and movement is another form of change. Not just walking from one place to the other, the entire environment is changing. It’s just a matter of an escalation of that, or basically how slow or how fast that process is happening. It wants us to experience life and I believe it wants us to find humility, find goodness, and move to a constructive way to progress evolution but understanding it and wanting it to happen in the best way we can do it [while being as least destructive as we can]. I think that’s what draws it to it. When it becomes too destructive, it simply just recycles it that’s destructive. I always say, “The Dark Side will turn on you.” That’s what it means. You become a product of the own destruction you’re creating when you simply just want to continue existing. You get sucked into the own vacuum you’ve created.


There’s an interesting story I read about this guy who died and said he went to hell. I read it and it said he found himself when he died. This is where your heart stops and they can’t read anything and everything. He was actually floating above the Earth. He was given puzzle pieces as he was floating above the Earth that he had to assemble and put together. When he finished assembling them, he would be released from having to be there. He was like, “I was in hell,” and they said, “How was that hell? It sounds beautiful.” He said, “No, it felt like thousands of years, hundreds of years,” as time is different, and he said, “None of the pieces would fit in. Three or four would fit in and all of a sudden the next piece wouldn’t fit. I could never find the right pieces to fit in. It just never ended. That’s where I knew I was being punished.” At the end, I think that when we don’t have brain death, people say that you’re dead but there’s still something going on in your mind. I think that your own inner-reflection of right or wrong dictates your own destiny, so because he felt that he had done certain wrongs through the belief system and his ideas, this is what created self-punishment for him.


It’s the same way we had dreams to deal with deal with fire and learn to cope with it so we approach it more slowly, because we’re not as afraid of it the more we see it. In essence, you become better if you organically live long enough to keep having to deal with these things psychologically. In the end, I say that the universe is all energy and it’s layer of frequency. I often say it’s like cup of really bad coffee made with chicory [root]. Chicory is this red—I don’t even know what chicory is, I think it’s kind of like these nuts or something. They grind it down and when they don’t make coffee using coffee beans, they use chicory and they put hot water in it.


If you let it sit, it creates this layer of muck or something at the very top, and there’s this thicker layer just below it that’s distinctly different. Then, there’s like a pink color hue that comes down and it just has a certain buoyancy. Eventually, it gets clear down at the bottom. [There are] all these different layers. This is how I try to explain the universe and frequencies and energy. Your consciousness is made out of all of the things that you think, you believe, your emotions, your passions, your everything. It’s all complex energy by what is dense or not. It’s not like zeros and ones. It’s like the zeros and ones bulk together and it creates a certain kind of frequency mass or a light mass if you will. There’s no light, but in essence, it’s to say that somebody can look at it and know what kind of person you are, but the universe can only do it. It does that by the arrangement of your thoughts that create your identity and it becomes like heavy frequency or a lighter frequency to make it simple.

In order to move toward the universe, or God, you need a certain lightness in order to be able to catch that buoyancy. It’s like when the government releases these big test balloons. It can only go so high before the air mass or whatever prevents it from going higher. It has to stay there but it will go that high and not go lower because it’s mass also. It gets to see from that level. It’s the same thing: Your deeds and action in life and what you evolve to are going to define whether you get to return to the universe as completed and you’re like God, at least to a quality enough to become part of its body again which is what you really want in the end. If you don’t then you have to go down and continuously keep refining yourself, in the meantime hoping that you can maintain a spiritual body and all of these organic bodies as you’re going through life. You can fall asleep and also lead to bad things.


Jared: That would be reincarnation basically. Your energy is just being—

Eric: No different than white cells remembering one cold from another. They die but they come back and they have the information from the other lives that they had. Think about it.


Jared: Yeah, because people have said that they remember their past lives. That was never too surprising to me.

Eric: I think that—I try to look at this as a level of logic and there’s a lot of debate in science and quackery. I scoff at people who say, “Oh, I was Queen Elizabeth,” or “I was Napoleon.” Ugh. In the end, there is a level of data, I think, that you carry through DNA. I think that you can have memories of your father’s father’s grandfather’s grandfather depending on the timing which you were birthed or created. I think that some people get circus memories of this. I think there’s a biological level to memory and then there’s a spiritual level to memory. It’s very important because everything in New Age tends to take this “one size fits all” to everything. This is what I think has been the [demise] in a spiritual and intellectual sense because people say, “Oh, that just sounds so silly.” That’s why I don’t want anything to do with it. They [dumbed] it down. It’s like saying [there are] only five species of fish in the ocean. Give me a break. [There are] billions of living things in the ocean. You simply need to classify them and understand what their role is and finally you go, “Ah, I get it!”

In essence, you’re working on a level of understanding. Everything has its own role. I don’t know, I’m shutting down now. This could go on forever.


Jared: Yeah, I have one more question if you’ve got it in you.

Eric: Sure.


Jared: I know very little about this topic but it’s been interesting me the last few weeks: the law of attraction. What is that all about? And what are the implications of that if you can access that? [99:10]


Eric: Why don’t you tell me your interpretation of the laws of attraction, because there’s the recent book, “The Secret.” [There are] different people who have different interpretations of that. There is the physical aspect of using that for interpretation versus the manifestation, so it can go any way.

Jared: I think attraction is not just somebody looking at you and being like, “Oh, I like that person.” That’s a very dumbed-down version of attraction. I think it has to do with the auras and how much energy you’re—


Eric: When you say, “the law of attraction,” by what context are you referring [to] that?

Jared: I don’t even know yet. I haven’t looked into it enough.


Eric: Okay. Well, there’s a lot of opinions that vary on that. [There are] different approaches. There’s why some people are successful and not successful, monetarily in life. That’s the law of attraction. There are people who say, “It means money, life, everything.” It really is a broad kind of terminology for it and it can mean different things for different people. Answering that question is a loaded answer because it’s like, “Am I picking the right answer for that person and how they’re asking it?”


In general, I’ll say let’s build it off of this: The law of attraction is whether or not you have a positive life and things go your way, or you have negative things happens. I would say that that is a multi-faceted situation. I think that if you are—and I teach this—We know this from studies that if you’re an optimist and you have a positive attitude when something bad happens, you go, “You know what? It’ll work out in the end.” If you’re a pessimist, which I usually can be, I’ll be like, “Yarrr!” and you’re just frustrated with it. It’s just like, “Oh, it’s going to get worse from here and now I have to do this and now I have to do that.” There are some people more natural to be optimist than there are people to always be optimistic. They’re more likely to be pessimist. We know through studies over x amount of time of married couples, that if people were considered through the testing [to be] optimists by their answers, or pessimists, they could see that they had a much higher level of non-divorce, monetary gain, and happiness in their life overall. In fact, [it was] so significant that it just released it out, versus people that were pessimists who would take certain energy and worked a great job, did everything in life but they would have higher levels of divorce, they would make lower incomes.


The state of mind, on a rudimentary level, has an act in society. I don’t like to say that everything should fall under spiritual. I think it’s several levels that actually come together. I think [spirituality] affect [it], but you have to dissect it a little bit, logically. When one thinks a bit about it a certain way and you’re like, “I just wish I would meet the right person,” or “I wish I would get the right job or the right opportunity,” and “Things always seem to work against me.” I would say, “Look at in very simple terms. When you go for a job, does that person like you as a person? Are you smiling, making them smile? Have you ever smiled at somebody? It makes them want to smile. I’m making you smile because I’m smiling.

It’s, in a way, psychologically addicting [because] we’re designed like this through nature. If that person has a demeanor, you kind of want that person. You know you want people that are kind of happy around you, they kind of make you feel good. The key is [making] you feel good. Their attitude is contagious and affects you, so if you start choosing people like that, you too will become happier and whatever.


When you do business with someone and you’re going to buy something from them, if they have that certain, what we call “a vibe,” a personality, you tend to trust them more. You tend to like them more. You tend to do more with them which equates to doing sales with them, buying from them, giving your money to them, which all of a sudden makes their life better. When they have a positive disposition, they too are looking for somebody with a positive disposition which is going to be a female, their counterpart. Or, a woman who found their counterpart is going to be positive. If they find another optimist, which matches them, they tend to laugh more, they tend to look at the bad times in a way that, “Oh, we’re just going to grow from this.” Instead of wallowing and burning time of their like, as time stops for nobody, they’re actually being more productive in their life to economically move forward. In troubling times between their relationship, instead of dwelling on it and making it toxic, they’re more likely to disengage the wrongs and be forgiven and create a stronger, more stable relationship and they mature in their age in wisdom instead of being aggressive and depressive.



On a spiritual level, when you have less negative things you’re wallowing in. When you have negative things happening, it’s about control. You want to influence and control things. “I want to control this girl that I really like,” or, “I want to control that person that I really like,” or “I really want to control this job situation or this job person.” This is you basically willing something to change someone else’s course. It’s about your desirability instead of what is in the flow of the universe [and] what it wants. In a sense, you’re ostracizing yourself as a frequency to have less influence, in my opinion, due to the process of evolution tweaking in its broader spectrum. In a sense, you could say you’re becoming less spiritual through your actions and those who can find less time to deal with the materialism. Materialism comes from, “I want this. I want that. I want to control this. I want to control that. I want more economic means to survive.” You say to the universe, “I just need enough to get by,” but when you get that, then you always want more.

In essence, the price of acquisition comes at a price of turmoil and reflection of your consciousness, therefore you’re distracting yourself from spiritual growth and you’re approaching it in the sense that you want to control more material things, which is detracting from the higher states of consciousness. Those who attain it have it just fall in their favor as if the universe is literally handing it to them because it’s saying, “You’re more mature than your brothers or sisters, so you should be more responsible in guiding everything else.” That is this yin-yang process between how you think spiritually and what you don’t.

I can tell you that when people meditate more, they often get this thing of letting this kung-fu move, when something comes at them, [they] just detach from it. You don’t let it affect you. They’ll say, “My life is so much better. It’s so much more peaceful.” Sooner or later, they fall back asleep and they go back into the Doe. They get sucked back into the tow of life’s demands and pressures and anxieties instead of having the anxiety hit them and going into meditation, not letting it stick to you, then coming at it from a detached way to solve it. They tend to grab the horn by its bull because they forget. It was so shocking that it stopped them from using their practice. I think it’s psychological and spiritual. Mind, body, and spirit: one has to try to be aware of those.

Anybody can practice meditation and be freed from these things and have a better life. I absolutely believe that, but if you don’t commit to that in the times of trouble and you just go back to your old, natural ways, then you’re going find that you’re not moving ahead. All of the stuff that you’ve moved ahead [on], you’re going to start falling back on. This is why you have to have ritual. This is why you have to have a level of routine that’s spiritual, so that you’re constantly removing these negative things and constantly reminding yourself to be mindful of those things. That’s what being in this state of mind is. I think that when you also detach, think about something else. Often, it is said that when you have problems, it’s very hard to solve them on your own, even though you’re the person who solves everybody else’s problems. You need almost somebody else to come in to solve it for you. The truth is, if you do meditation and you detach from it, you can solve your own problems as [wisely] and as powerfully as you do give advice for other people if they followed it. It would be good for them and that’s the difference.

Jared: Yeah, being optimistic, it’s like being realistic. We’ve kind of come full-circle here to our first topic. You have to let the universe do its thing, pretty much. The less you try to control the things that you can’t control, the better your life will be.

Eric: I think you can control it. It’s just a matter of looking at it. I would say this: I think the universe is like riding the waves if you’re a surfer. You need the wave and it’s powerful and you’ve got to respect it. You have this tremendous, powerful thing happening, shaping and molding it, and you go on there, but you can direct the ride and the experience, to a certain degree, through the choices you’re making.
Jared: It’s like you have to control yourself in the environment that you can’t control.

Eric: Precisely. You need self-awareness. This is what spiritual people do. It’s self-awareness.


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