Eric: I just want to make a point that we hear a lot of people who talk about astral projection. They talk about mind projection. They talk about remote viewing. In my opinion, all three of these are essentially the same thing. They’re just wordplay, I think, to kind of spread the interest, I suppose. I think it does a great disservice to people who really want incredible results. When one thinks about astral projection, one invokes mentally the idea of this body and this gets into the string that comes from the body. It’s kind of like an umbilical cord. I just couldn’t disagree in all of my years of experience that I have ever seen a cord or whatnot, other than maybe when I was younger and I was experimenting, wanting to envision that. I still had trouble bringing that as a concept into my—because I would look for it.

As far as having a body, this is us being human in a bipedal form. When you think about your consciousness stepping into an arena of distance or time or space, the organic body isn’t going there. There’s no need for legs or limbs or hands or even a head for that matter. It’s you, the individual, wanting to impose your consciousness or your energy to have a shape. As soon as you start thinking that way, you also limit it subconsciously whether you realize it or not. Even if you think you’re flying through the air and you envision yourself having a body, there’s still this idea in the back of your head that you should be on ground, you should be walking, you should be—These are all super subconscious, what we would call “governors.” They’re all limiting the amount of access or the amount of speed or the amount of information you can get, whether you think you can or can’t, it doesn’t matter. It simply does that.

To me, it’s just very limiting. When one thinks about remote viewing, you don’t really think about having a body. You, in your mind, invoke the idea that you’re going to see some kind of panoramic vision in your mind, no different than if you were to envision what your bathroom looks like at home or your office or the interior of your car. This is probably truer as to the experience than to say that you have this body. The interesting thing is that when you think about astral projection—I just want to slam astral projection all day long. You already, if you pay attention, you’re already in the third person in a way, or the second person because you’re really kind of thinking about your body or observing yourself because you have a body.

When we sit like I’m sitting in a chair, you obviously can’t see my face but I can see my hands moving in front of me. I can see my legs extending out from my body. When you do astral projection, there’s this conflict in my mind that somewhere, you’re supposed to be seeing your parts, your body parts moving around. When that doesn’t occur, you don’t think about it. The result is that if you’re getting results, you probably have already moved into remote viewing or mind projection. Those are those two things there. The thing is also: We hear remote viewing and we hear astral projection and we hear these terms. Just the terms alone create this idea of how we’re supposed to see things or garner information. When you really think about it, you’re already setting limits by what your expectations are and when you don’t find those expectations in the way that you think they’re going to happen, then you have a sense of failure. That sense of failure, of course, is very powerful. It’s very mighty. It’s very suppressing. This leads to continued failure with other attempts or it makes it incredibly harder to have results to get excited about, that encourage you to start to figure things out a bit. It’s very much a dampening thing.

Nick: What are the benefits of mind projection and how are the limitations you’re talking about, the governor’s, how do those prevent people from getting more out of mind projection? [6:24]

Eric: The thing is this: Your mind is your thoughts. Your thoughts often don’t manifest as thoughts, they manifest as subtle emotions. Now, you have bold emotions. You have anger. You have love. You have all these passionate things. Even hunger can be bold, desire, all these things. When you think about these things, your emotions also have this subtle effect. The subtle effect that you’re not really being aware of is disappointment, expectation, frustration, anxiety. These affect the driving force of what I call your forward thinking, the front of your decision-making actions per se.

When you think about your decision-making actions, you have to ask yourself, what was the trickling information that built up to this burp of a decision. “I’m finished now. I’m going to get up and go.” At what point did you realize that you were going to be finished? At what point did you really give up before you stated the conscious fact of that and then made an effort to give up?

Your thinking is consciousness. Your micro-emotions are really the core of where things are at. This is why I always say in meditation, which is really the greatest tool to start going into these other arenas, it teaches you to kind of be aware of your mind and discipline certain things so you can have greater accomplishments. At the end of the day, you have to have an inner peace and inner calm. Empty your head and as I always say, “Want for nothing.” It doesn’t mean that you don’t desire something. The second you put want, it becomes this thought process of self-analyzing and self-doubt and this subtle sense inside of you without it becoming words is saying, “I don’t know if I can really do this even though you’re trying to pump yourself up.” It’s better to just empty yourself of everything and then have a process by which you’ve been trained to follow and that is where you’re going to get better results. Thought controls everything when it comes to mind projection, thought projection, call it whatever you want.

Jesse: When you say, “Want for nothing, gain everything,” I think that sometimes it could be misinterpreted in certain circumstances. Are you saying “don’t have desire,” or are you saying that the approach of which your desire is formatted? In other words, it’s more of an expectation but without expecting? More like you’re— [8:46]

Eric: Okay, let me try to break this down because this is one of those things amongst other things that I teach that are incredibly elusive ideas. One almost would think, “Well, this is silly. It means this or it means that. It means the same thing or it means nothing.” I couldn’t blame for somebody who would think that’s it. When you decide you want to get a glass of water, there are times when you say, “Alright, I need to get a glass of water,” and you hear those words in your head. There are other times when you automate knowing that you want a glass of water but your mind is riveted around something else. Your body gets up and moves and gets the glass of water because it’s the routine that you know very well. That would be more non-thought versus actively, vocally in your mind, in a sense, audibly hearing it.

Whenever you have that audible part, this goes back to that little test to prove to people that they have no control, that you’re really a machine and you’re coexisting in there. Somewhere, the real you is in there. When I say, “Have somebody hold up three or four random objects and whatever you do, don’t say them in your head or say them out loud.” If you hear this part of you pipe up and say what it is in your mind’s audible, that is what you don’t want. That very thought of vocalness is coming from the governor that sets the limits of what you can and cannot do. It says, “You can’t do the remote viewing. It’s not in your forté of tools of life.” The second that you think in words in your mind, even though you think you’re making those decisions rather than random decisions in your mind, they come with wires connected to you. When you’re talking about using your mind to bend time and space, the last thing you want to do is in your head say, “I’m going to do this,” or “I’m going to do that,” or “Nothing’s on yet,” or “I think it’s—” like you’re chattering. This is the same battle that you have in meditation, which we call “the monkey mind” or the Babbler or whatever. This is why you’ve got to do your kung fu lessons, your practice, your regimen. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again in your essential training for meditations because it transfers over to this incredible self-discipline of consciousness.

Now, when you think of non-thought, it just means, “Don’t talk in your head.” It doesn’t mean that you stop thinking. You know what you want to do. You know how to do it. You don’t have to think about doing anything vocally if you think about it. You can do everything. In fact, you can execute at a higher level of precision with having non-vocal thought going on, non-thought, than if you start thinking about it. It tends to slow down or you get disconnect from what you were going to achieve or your mind wanders. You want to really explore this process of your own self about what’s kind of automated versus what is your truer, higher consciousness in there. If you can’t discover that, then you’re at an incredible loss of really trying to do these incredible things with your mind. You have to have a very good understanding of your self-consciousness, self-awareness.

Jesse: Okay, you could say that “want for nothing, gain everything,” could be translated into “have intent in non-thought?” [12:42]

Eric: Yeah, I mean, we’re getting into where it gets kind of crazy but when I say to you, “want for nothing when you go into remote viewing,” it’s almost a contradictory thought but you’re thinking because you’re physical. You’re applying physical thinking to your minds of an energy level that’s not restricted to gravity, let’s say. You’re not restricted to the amount of space that you can move in. So, the moment that you have thought, what is behind it subconsciously are these incredible limitations on what you can do and immediately, you have this sense of, “I’m probably going to fail.” That’s where it comes from. If you simply don’t think about it or just say, “I’m going to have non-thought,” you already know what your intention is. That quiet part of your mind, the real you, knows what it wants to do and it will go out and do it up until the point that your brain starts talking to it and it’s like heavy weights on an ethereal flight or an ethereal balloon, a helium balloon lifting. It’s too much weight and it pulls it back down.

This comes into self-consciousness discipline. Most people who have incredible results with mind projection will talk about how phenomenal, how mind-blowing, how incredible it was, but then it’s like the one and only time they ever achieve it. They’ll do it maybe two or three times and they just never seem to get it because they get so excited about what happened and wanting to do it again, but that excitement is like a kid wound up in your head. It actually prevents you from any further success. If you go back to that one time you had success, I’m willing to bet that your mind was empty, that somehow, for whatever reasons, the body may have been a little tired, the mind would have been wound down or whatever it was, but you guided it through intention or desire or maybe even did it accidentally. In the back of your mind was the desire or interest to have some effect like that. Interestingly, you can even have pre-setup remote viewing by practicing for days and then one day you forget, but you enter into a meditation. It’s like you’ve built up this flight plan and all of a sudden it says, “Go! The runway is clear! Take off!” You’re not even aware of it but you, inside, have been wanting this for such a long time that all of a sudden, all the right things have aligned to have that quiet in your mind, that anchor of that organic weight is lifted from your mind and it’s able to go. That’s when all of a sudden you get these incredible impacts.

Jesse: It seems to be that a lot of experiences happen after you’re kind of working at it, momentum builds up and then when you’re not trying to do it, if you’ve been working on it after— [15:35]

Eric: Yeah, because you’ve stopped and what do you do? You stop wanting for it. When you stop wanting for it and you just happen to not physically have gotten up to change things yet, there’s a chance it ricochets in. This is what, in spirituality, is called self-observation. It’s through self-observation that you learn to start cutting out the stuff that didn’t work and try to say, “How did I get to this state of mind for that effect? What was that state of mind? What did it feel like? Can I imitate that state again and how can I shorten it to get to that point?”

Jesse: When I think of the differences between remote viewing and astral projection and knowing that they’re all coming from the same sensory, the way I perceive it is that remote viewing is like a vision where it’s not as much spiritual energy in the experience, therefore you don’t feel as if you’re fully immersed in it, versus astral projection, you could say maybe more psychic energy is involved so that you actually feel like you’re out there or you’re flying around or— [16:23]

Eric: Let me ask you a question. Have you experimented with astral projection? It sounds like you were already pre-sorting them into two categories, which I would argue.

Jesse: Yeah, I would say that I’ve had more experience with astral projection than remote viewing. [17:04]

Eric: Okay. I would say to you: When you astral projected, did you see your body?

Jesse: On some occasions, it’s been where it’s just the top, from my torso up. I felt as if I had my body. In other cases, I tried to not have it but yeah, it’s almost like a carbon copy of the physical body leaving the body. [17:15]

Eric: Okay. I would say to that: What did you see?

Jesse: As far as myself? [17:38]

Eric: Well through your astral body that doesn’t have eyeballs, organically, but somehow you were seeing.

Jesse: Right. [17:45]

Eric: I would ask yourself how you were seeing. When you’re dragging along your bipedal arms and torso. I don’t know exactly how they were useful.

Jesse: No, not useful at all but it’s more of like the human brain is so designed to be with that.[17:58]

Eric: Right, I’m saying that you superimposed that over the experience and that is energy that the brain and the mind have to contribute a portion to, rather than the energy or the fuel to explore how far you can go.

Jesse: Well, then there are other astral projection experiences where it seemed more intense as far as like… All of a sudden it was like the Human Torch, like you’re on fire and you’re flying, almost like there’s Kundalini involved. There are other ones where it’s more like a vision. [18:18]

Eric: This is where I think a lot of these things are miscategorized. When you say these things, have you seen your body on fire?

Jesse: No, no. I felt it and heard it. [18:48]

Eric: Okay, so you felt it and you heard it? It’s not necessarily astral projection. Do you understand? If you felt it, did you feel it in our physical body, the person that I’m talking to right now? Or did you feel it in some kind of other body?

Jesse: Some kind of other body. [19:02]

Eric: Okay. This other body you believed was you?

Jesse: I believed it was a probe. [19:08]

Eric: Okay. What I’m saying to you is that you experience that from yourself outward which is a form of—Let’s say it’s projecting yourself. I’m saying to you, what usefulness was that experience? What projecting to obtain information? How was that useful to you?

Jesse: It wasn’t. [19:36]

Eric: How visual? How clear? Was it like HD, 4K TV?

Jesse: It was like…Just like now, just regular. [19:40]

Eric: How do you know that you weren’t just using your imaginative mind in a highly descriptive way versus actually moving your mind in this reality?

Jesse: It felt physiologically like I was moving around. [19:55]

Eric: It still doesn’t matter. I mean—

Jesse: So, what would you say that would be then? [20:00]

Eric: Well, I think that you’re designing and building a structure in your mind, I think you’re still in your mind and you believe that you’re projecting that outside of you but it’s like a person who hallucinates, who projects. If you don’t, you get sleep deprivation and you start to see people moving around. At first, they’re transparent and then they get more solid as the wiring in the brain starts to project your mind’s eye in front of you.

Jesse: Right. [20:26]

Eric: When you say you’re feeling it, you’re either feeling it in your body or you’re feeling it over there. If you’re feeling it over there, then how does that relay in your mind? You see it as somebody on fire and you can have maybe empathy but that’s not really the same thing as feeling it.

Jesse: No, yeah, like totally feeling it though, as if I’m not—

Eric: Then two people were burning. Your dimensional body was burning and your organic body was burning.

Jesse: My organic body, I wasn’t aware of. [20:53]

Eric: Okay.

Jesse: In other words, I know I was laying on the bed but I was disconnected from whatever was happening with my organic body. [20:58]

Eric: It’s still happening in your mind.

Jesse: Right, right, right. It’s still happening in your body and you’re just imposing it. [21:06]

Eric: Yeah. It’s no different than in your dream. In your dream, you could be burning and you feel like you’re burning but you don’t—Do you know what I’m saying? You feel that that person is you so you’re burning. This is like—

This is where you have to be so careful because you can spend your life in your head thinking you’re going somewhere outside of it. I always say, “You’re limited by what you can imagine.”

Jesse: Either way, even if you are projecting, it’s the same thing, right? You really are in your mind. [21:32]

Eric: No. What I’m saying to you is that if you move your mind, then you should be able to see, at some point. It’s like you’re in the room. It’s high-definition but you don’t really associate or see your body. You don’t feel your body. You don’t do anything that would be organically related because there is no body. When you feel your body or your think in terms of your body, you’re not projecting, you’re imagining.

Jesse: What I always thought was that it was that you’re projecting while still having human limitations because you’re still— [22:11]

Eric: Well, you could be superimposing the two.

Jesse: Right, right. [22:20]

Eric: You could be getting some level of data but you— I’m saying you’re incredibly limiting your real potential.

Jesse: True. [22:27]

Nick: How does one move when they’re projecting with their mind versus let’s say in his opinion, he’s using his body, he’s functioning more on a bodily level? [22:28]

Eric: Look, you get to a point where you don’t really think of your body anymore. It’s like a diminishing effect. As you become more focused, you become less and less aware of your body. There’s always this minute level of awareness and even that can go, depending on how deep you go. There’s that one factor.

Number two, as far as motion or movement, I would say to you, “Close your eyes and right now, imagine you’re a drone flying over a tree forest, heading out towards the ocean,” or that you’re a bird. You see this momentum. There’s a feeling that you have in your chest right now that actually identifies, it’s like computer code, and it says, “This is what you need in order to insert to mind projection.” You simply accept the fact that you should have movement, but the problem is that most people who do mind projection end up dropping into some place and they lack the control to actually choose where they’re going because it gets very, very difficult. There are different methods and processes in which to do that. Movement, first of all, if a very human way of thinking and because you approach it as movement, that is what prevents you from actually seeing something at a distance. This is where you almost have to empty all of your words because you relate to them unconsciously. It’s like kung fu training, a pattern over and over again. The muscle memory is attached to that process.

By having yourself work with different kinds of thinking—This is why I say, “non-thought: don’t have verbalization in your head.” Find new ways that are exclusive to this process. One shouldn’t think about it as traveling even though it’s very hard and even I will use words like that because we’re talking on this level about something on that level per se. In essence, I don’t think of it as traveling as much as I just think of being there. There is a desire to know. I’ve often said that when you do psychometry, which is to hold an object and see things in your mind, or anything where you’re kind of trying to garner information and see things in your head, this still falls under remote viewing, in my opinion. Time does not have a hold on such a thing. Distance doesn’t have a hold on such a thing.

When one thinks about it, think about it this way: If you were to see the future, clearly, the future you’re seeing isn’t in this room that you’re standing in. You’re seeing it somewhere else. Did you travel to that place or did it just appear in your mind? Do you see my point? You limit yourself by thinking you have to travel, astral travel. This is, again, words I hate. Mind projection, projecting your mind, means moving it out. Remote viewing, this is what I prefer but even remote viewing, from a human perspective, is remotely from one place, looking at a place from a distance. You’ve got to scrap all that thinking because that’s what’s preventing you from doing it. There’s this subconscious part that’s saying, “Oh no! We’ve got to get up and walk there now,” or “Oh no! We have to be there physically.”

When one all of a sudden thinks about the future, you immediately, in your body, know that you can’t get there. You know, intelligently, that a future exists because we are progressing through life in the moment. Whenever you think about something in the future, you use your imagination, you use your thinking, you use your expectation of seeing a pattern, happening over and over and you know that’s what’s going to happen around the corner because you’ve witnessed it. That’s a form of predicting the future. If you take the idea of predictive thinking, which you already have a predesigned thinking for, and you just swap that part out and leave the rest and plug it into the idea of remote viewing, all of a sudden, it becomes high-functioning.

Sure, a lot of things like this are about moving the pieces. It’s “How do you think?” This is self-observation. What part can you disassemble from your organic thinking or recognize that that’s how it works and find cheat codes, find workarounds? That’s what everything I teach is. It’s a workaround. It’s hacking the system.

Nick: Do you find that there’s an aspect of turning inwards, turning your mind inwards to then kind of move outwards? [27:19]

Eric: Well, again, we’ve got to be very careful with wordplay. If you think in words, we want to be inside of ourselves. We think in our body and I would say that you don’t necessarily want to do that. When you want for nothing, you always walk into that situation, at least most of the time, with an intention, “I want to do astral projection.”

Listen, think of it differently. Here, million dollar statement. I’ve said this, again, in a lot of the training stuff and I’ve shown ways to use this: If you go see a movie on spiders, what do you dream—most likely, probably a 60% chance that night that you’re going to have a dream of?

Nick: Spiders. [28:01]

Eric: Did you go to bed thinking you were going to think about spiders?

Nick: No. [28:04]

Eric: Did it even enter your mind after watching the movie? You talked about it but it was maybe just a five-second thing where they had a spider and it was like, “Ooh,” and then it moved on with the rest of the movie. Ten to one, because it’s ingrained in us, you’re going to think of that spider. Why would you have a dream about spiders knowing there’s a chance and that it’s a commonality that all of us already recognize, that there’s a good chance that even if I watch a movie on spiders, even two days later, three days later, I’m going to have a dream about spiders? In fact, this very conversation is probably going to invoke, in all the listeners, between the next three days, some point where they’re going to dream about a spider?

In essence, that’s intention subconsciously. This is why when people practice something and three days later, they have an effect, it’s the same principle. Do you understand? It’s “How do you capture that process in a bottle?” That’s what I teach, it’s what’s going on between that period of observing and wanting and the moment that it occurs in your dream. It’s the middle part that you want to cut out and then swap it into another part of your mind to make it do things.

It’s no different. There’s an intention. There’s a subconscious thing going on. You have to do the same thing. You apply that kind of thinking or just thinking about what I said to you. It’s already upgrading your consciousness because now it’s a new idea. You’re not going to let it go if you think about it a few times. It will get more firm in your mind. When you think about remote viewing, don’t think about you going somewhere, just think about it as something, as if you’re seeing the future. [Take] what you assume and then try to let assuming go. You then kind of have that feeling, you go, “Oh yeah, it’s like the spider dream but now I’m just doing it to see out there.” You leave it out there as nothing. You want to cut that, even.

In other words, when you practice your technique for doing remote viewing, at some point, you stop wanting to do any technique. You’ve done all of the preparation correctly and you just kind of sit and be. Then, what’s going to happen is, it’s like the dream. Some other part of your mind takes over. It wants to continue where you left off but you have to sit and wait as if you’re allowing it to happen. You will find that inside of you, there are different thing that you can grab ahold of emotionally if you will, and it will, when you hold certain things, it’s like tone or notes. I don’t even know where to begin to describe it. It’s a feeling and you know that that’s the feeling and as long as you can hold that feeling, it’s perpetually speeding up the process by which that vision is coming in. Again, seeing visions is a whole other category to explain to somebody so that you have an idea of how it works. Most people start thinking right away that they’re supposed to see it vividly, instantly. In rare cases, these things happen but really, what you need to do is you need to understand that it’s kind of hazy, fuzzy.

If I say, “Okay, close your eyes and imagine your bathroom floor. Imagine the shower. Imagine the curtains or the door to your shower. Imagine the tiling of the wall on there. Imagine your sink. Did you see it in HD or did you see it in kind of a transparent, fuzzy, kind-of-there-kind-of-not? It’s more like you were recalling rather than adding the features. Again, self-observation: which is it? When you recall something, you have a knowing and you get maybe a 3% marker that is very transparent, 3% transparency. 100% is like HD video, as real as real. You get only a reference point in your memory so the idea is that the more you relax your mind, the more that you stop thinking about what you want to see and you allow yourself. All of a sudden, you already set it and forget it, I hate to put it. You will start to see your bathroom in higher and higher levels of detail the more that you’re cool with that idea of seeing it, as long as you remain kind of amused and observing and not having verbal thought in your head of what you’re seeing. The quality slowly inches up because your brain thinks you’re going to just— “Okay, you’ve had your recollection. That’s it. Move on.” There’s no need. It’s energy efficient.

The more that you force yourself to continually look at that bathroom, you will see that the 2% almost creates another 2% but they lay on top of each other creating a higher definition and then that definition gets stronger and layers. It gets layers and it gets layered and then you begin to see in higher and higher quality, but eventually, you get unamused with it because that is the boredom cycle. Other stuff starts wandering into your thinking.

This is all self-observation. This is all training. In essence, what you want to do is to just accept whatever you’re seeing and just continue observing without wanting to observe deeper, but what would you want? You’d want to see clearer. Why do you have to think about that? You should just simply assume that that’s what’s going to happen and if you can do that, you find that the definition increases dramatically.

Nick: For beginners, what would you recommend as a process to build up to or at least help them attain some level? [33:39]

Eric: Very simple. Start with visualizing the bathroom, stuff that’s common things in your daily life. Whenever you do something like this and you insist on observing longer than recall would say, you’re building or exercising the portions of your brain that are the HD controllers, the [number] of resources that are allocated to this. Again, the brain is incredibly energy efficient, as is the body. It runs on electricity and almost nothing for electricity compared to the Stone Age of us where we think we’ve got TVs going. It’s still not as astonishing as what the human body can do on minimal amounts of energy. Thought processes, a minimal amount of electrical energy.

By making something in your mind, demanding it by your will, just by observing, makes it so that it’s forced to keep raising the intensity of that ability to sharpen things. Then, later, when you start to move into the process of doing remote viewing, I would say, “Don’t go into remote viewing trying to find a place or a location or anything like that.” Just simply, in your mind, you already know you want to see something amazing, you want to see anything. Really, your real desire is to see something interesting. Look at that with the same feeling that you recall a memory that you’re building in your mind, but make it a memory that is attached to the unknown or attached to a place or a feeling.

In other words, when I say, “Think of your bathroom,” what most people don’t realize that they’re also doing if they really have self-observation, is that there’s a feels-like for your bathroom. If you think about it, it feels a certain kind of way to you. I’m not talking about smell. I’m not talking about— I’m just talking about how your home feels a certain way. A person has a certain feeling like when you think about them, you kind of feel like, “Ehh,” or “Yay,” or “Ohh,” or whatever, normal. Everything has a frequency of an emotional feeling attached to it, no matter how small it is or how big it is. A city can feel like something. This is what we teach in “Ties That Bind.” You’re taking in, again, how all of these things are interconnected. Everything has a feels-like. If you want to dial into a place, it’s kind of important that you kind of know that place so that you’ve recorded it with your biological five senses per se so that you can invoke that feeling and your mind will start building that. Now, there will be this battle, whether it’s your memory or not your memory, but what you want to do then is you want to use that kind of precognition if you will, that kind of sense of the future. You kind of put that feeling into that place and what’s happening is, as long as you don’t analyze what you’re thinking, the mind follows what it’s kind of told to do. It stops when you start to doubt or question that process.

Jesse: What you’re saying is…Say you’re going to do a feels-like of the bathroom and you’re envisioning. Maybe you impose into it also the feeling of, “How’s it going to change with new people living in the house in the future?” [37:00]

Eric: Yes! Yes! If you moved out of your old place, can you move your mind into the feeling of that bathroom? Ten to one, it’s changed but the majority has remained the same. Can you tell me what is different in there? Can you look at the curtains? Are the curtains different? You already know they are. You know it right now as we’re talking. You guys are already talking about places you previously lived and you’re thinking about that place and what may have changed. Immediately, you’re going to the shower door or the curtains, anything that’s changeable. You already know that the floor mats are going to change. There are things that can’t be changed but you could paint it. It’s the likelihood so you’re using your rational brain that’s still fighting you. If you can relax that and not think about it, not have thought—that’s your thought—and just kind of see what vision comes to you by setting the most minute level of that factor, bathroom, this place. What is it like now? You allow this imagery to come to you the same way that you’ve been practicing to recall, in detail, the bathroom.

Jesse: A lot of people I think that have an interest in astral projection or these things, kind of have an interest exploring the universe and what’s outside the planet. Is it harder to project or to remote view or to have visions if you were to go further out into the universe than if it were some place here? [38:22]

Eric: Everybody is uniquely different, but the majority. As I always say, rule of thumb, it doesn’t mean anything I say is 100% because everybody is kind of different at certain things but a lot alike in other ways. Look, we know from the things that I taught in Lost Room, Kairos, stuff like that, when we started talking about waves versus direct particles and stuff that, with observations and science, it stops. For those of you guys who don’t know what I’m talking about, talk to the staff about Kairos and stuff, mindblowing stuff, I love science. In there lies your answer. The reason why people have a lot of trouble under research and studies for psychic phenomena is because of the fear of failure and anxiety. This diminishes what I consider the “quantum, micro-level” that I believe affects the macro level of reality. It’s the bottom that affects all life above. It’s to say that if you were to [rid] yourself of the microbes on your skin, ten to one, you would probably die. You are dependent on an incredible ecosystem of micro-life that feeds to the macro-life. I would say that that macro-life has a micro-life that it’s dependent on, and so on and so forth.

When we say “quantum,” we’re talking about a level of physics that is, as Einstein said, “Spooky.” It doesn’t make any sense but it makes perfect sense if you think in terms of paranormal, spiritual, and metaphysical, and the fact that nothing is real. In essence, when you try to focus on something that’s relevant here, you immediately know that you could be fact-checked. That fact-check, in your mind, creates anxiety. “What if I’m not going to get it right,” or whatever. Even though you want to convince yourself in every way, you still have that factor. That’s why I always say, “Tell people all the time when you’re practicing to do readings and stuff that you’re new, you’re practicing, you just want a right-wrong level and to keep working on it,” because just that alone will increase the likelihood of your success. It alleviates some pressure, not all.

Now, apply that thinking to the universe. There’s not really a fact-checking system that can tell you if you see life on other planets. Here’s the thing: The vast majority probably doesn’t have life supporting planets. Most people won’t even go to those worlds because, subconsciously, they already, without thinking about it, are looking for life. They’re going—The other thing is that they’re going to wonder that what they see, depending on their level of knowledge, they’re either going to seek something out that’s very human-like, which is normal, rather than something that’s beyond your aptitude to imagine something that you’ve never seen before. It still doesn’t matter. You’re going to have a higher level of success with your experiences with stuff that you can’t instantly fact-check because your anxiety level is lower. Then, you have the self-doubt creeping in because you want that fact-checking done. It’s a double-edged sword.

Jesse: It’s not any harder to remote view? [42:15]

Eric: I would say it’s easier.

Jesse: It’s easier? [14:21]

Eric: The only limitation is the limitation of what you could allow yourself to imagine. You’re, as I taught in the Handbook of the Navigator, the mind will edit it out like the letter f. I show why and it’s mindblowing, even after you know it’s doing it, you’ll go back and it’ll do it to you again and again and again. What I’m saying is that if you think about seeing things, I often say it’s better to not have anything specific you want to see but just allow the universe to show you what it wants you to see. Ultimately, within you, what you really need to see or experience, it already knows and you should allow that to happen to progress you faster, spiritually, than thinking with your forward brain, which is very limited as to what you should be looking for because it doesn’t have a clue.

Jesse: Right. So, basically, this kind of comes back to the analogy of the shaman from South America and the ship and they couldn’t see it because they’d never imagined anything like that before. [43:21]

Eric: Right, it was beyond them. At the end of the day, you have to take in something that is very fresh. This is why I have you guys do the upgrades and why they’re so special. The audio upgrades are so special because anybody who has done them will say that it makes you think in a completely different way. It’s absolutely alien but it’s perfectly logical, whatever. I also firmly believe that the IQ dramatically increases higher because you now see everything in life on a level that it was almost like you were asleep. This is relevant to the idea of what you can perceive. You have to channel it still through your organic brain. It’s a machine, it’s just the babbler talking in you. You showed a banana. It’s gotta say, “Banana!” in your head even though you don’t want it to.

In essence, whatever your mind is, no matter how incredible it is, it can’t process. Another way I try to explain this to people—and I’m anti-drug for the most part—but with hallucinogens, you can have these incredible experiences and you’re blown away. Then, the next day when you come to your normal level of sense, you can only remember that you kind of had an experience. You can remember some of the details but it’s like 90% is edited from your memory or the value that it has for such an impact, even though you know in your, what I’ll call a “sober state,” you knew it was incredibly valuable and you really want to remember it. The brain can’t process it.

You really have to work with the brain to gear it up to have the ability to have so much flexibility that it can actually wrap its mind around these incredible things. Hence, the reason why these upgrades that I put together are incredibly important to the success and evolution of your consciousness.

Jesse: It almost seems as if they pry open your filters of what you can imagine. What we’re seeking is something that we can’t imagine, that’s really what broadens our horizons. [45:37]

Eric: Well, you can, this just goes into the other approach. I think that anybody who’s listening to what we’re talking about now, naturally, is a White Cell. Naturally, they’re pursuing all of this. Naturally, there’s something more than what they are on the surface. They know this but they first have to realize that they’re in a battle between their organic consciousness and their spiritual consciousness and that the organic consciousness is greatly limiting the ability to merge. It’s like having memories surface. That’s the first thing you’ve got to look at, that organic capability. The more that you can increase the organic capability, the more that you allow the spiritual to be able to become part of your consciousness, your existence, your awakening.

This is why I always say, “Sitting in the rain, you’ll get wet.” If you simply listen to what I’m teaching, your mind, just thinking about it, is constantly redesigning itself. This is why you go back to a module and you’re like, “I listened to this whole thing and there’s stuff in there that I never heard Eric say in there.” You go back the third time thinking, “There’s no way I’m going to hear anything new,” and yet, it happens all over again. Each time you’re going, your brain is more fit, it’s more ready to handle this. Then, you have more phenomena happening all of a sudden, and better results. In fact, I would say that a lot of the teachings are more about preparing your mind to experience the phenomenal than it is just saying, “Push this button and this will happen.” Your mind has to be ready for this.

Jesse: Right. I know that in Dreamscapes, when we have done group dreamscapes or with people just doing them on their own, they often will report experiences where they’re on other world or alien planets and stuff. [47:34]

Eric: Yeah and in incredibly high definition.

Jesse: I was kind of wondering why they don’t have more experiences as humans, it always seems to be alien worlds and that kind of doesn’t seem to make any sense. [47:54]

Eric: Well, there are a lot of reasons. I think that one could say that if you believe in past lives, there are things you’re going to connect with more but I, of course, think that what I teach is beyond the New Age. I think the New Age is the old age, honestly. I think it’s as old as religion. Religion is dying and I think the New Age is dying and I’m glad to see it go. This is the age of intelligence, science, and spirituality. They go hand-in-hand if you can cut all the BS out. That’s what I’m about. Having said that, you have to now take another approach to all of this.

When you think of remote viewing, astral projection, of course, you’re thinking about going somewhere, you’re thinking about doing all of this. I disagree with all of that. I’m more an advocate to the “advanced spiritualists,” as I would call it, the “intellectual spiritualists,” the “scientist spiritualist.” In science and spirituality, we kind of walk this middle road, the “In-Between road.” In essence, this is something to wrap your mind around. This depends on your level of education or how much of your knowledge of the material that you’ve been exposed to by me. I don’t believe that reality is reality. I believe in a simulated reality. I believe that none of this is real. It’s an illusion.

Now, when we say “illusion,” that goes to New Age. If we say “simulated reality,” we think in a more modern age, we think, “Oh my god, we live on a computer disk or USB drive or something?” No, it’s way beyond that. The point is that there’s a shift in you, a paradoxical shift inside of you that goes from, “Reality is an illusion,” to this weird feeling of simulated reality because a simulated reality makes you feel as if everything is pre-written for you and that your existence is just whatever. I would say, “Well, wouldn’t that be karma? It has all these rules in that way,” whereas if you think of reality as an illusion you have this sense of etherealness, you’re just existing. In order to have something, there’s a set rule or order to things, which goes back to the simulation having a higher level of interpretation or understanding if you intellectually have the capacity to that. I think everybody does if they take their time with it.

Having said that, I believe that if we are in a simulated reality or it’s the same thing as saying “reality is an illusion,” which was said thousands of years ago by spiritual masters in deep meditation, then why would we have any limitation on anything? In other words, instead of thinking of you having past lives, ten, twenty, a hundred, or a thousand past lives, really, we all are on the same server, the same computer. It’s all shared data, it’s only limited by your self-perception of individualism, which young people seem to say, “No, I’m my own individual. I’m my own unique person.” Yes, you are, but at the same time, you’re part of something much bigger. It’s to say that you’re made out of billions of living cells. I say to students all the time, “Where are you? Point to it.” You can’t. There’s nothing from the eyeballs you see out of, what they’re made out of, to your ear drums, to your taste glands in your tongue if you dig down deep into the flesh and you look under a microscope. It’s still made out of living organisms that don’t need you as a conscious being at all to function. You are an entire living universe and you don’t even know where you exist. You can’t even point to where you are other than to say you’re inside your skull because you hear yourself speak. That’s still not very specific. There’s no you.

Why does that stop with you? If you were to microscopically look down, you’d see all sort of little “insects” moving. If you were to look at the skin they’re moving on, those are like living things. If you go inside of them, it’s just different from the kind of life we expect to see like with legs and stuff. It’s still a living thing and it goes through and through your entire body. What makes you think that it stops at you? We are these micro pieces of organisms, yet we are the living organisms on the skin of something else. It goes bigger and bigger and bigger, hence, macro-micro as I always teach.

When you think about this on a conscious level, an energy level, if everything is just holographic in a sense, right down to the microbes, what part of that isn’t you? When you go into a dream, in your dream, when you talk to other people, are those other people, especially when they tell you stuff that you believe you didn’t know? Where did they come from? You created them. They’re sharing the same server base of intelligence in your mind that you’re running. You’re running it. You’re really the prime consciousness at that moment but you see yourself as an individual with millions of other individuals. In fact, you could go to the bottom of the ocean or you could go into the universe. There’s no limitation. Everything that you see in there is created by your brain if you will, your consciousness and I believe that that is actually linked to all three of us in this room like wifi and it connects to every living thing on the planet, right down to the planets, the universe, to everything that’s being simulated, projected as our reality. It’s just segregated so that we think we’re this separate thing when, in truth, if we could just dissect that, we’re part of everything. That means when your mind projects, it’s more recall that it is actually seeing anything.

Jesse: Brilliant. On that note, actually— [53:37]

Eric: Let me just say something: This is what people have to fight to understand. The more you understand— It’s more than just to say, “Oh, we live in a simulated reality.” Okay, yeah, and you’ve got a blue bowtie on. It means nothing until you can really kind of, in your mind, move with it like this kind of wooly Tai Chi flow, like it just makes perfect sense. It’s like you’ve got to get to the point that you could do music and you’re not even thinking about what your fingers are playing on the guitar, you’re just feeling what you want and they just know what to do. There’s like this flow. There’s a flow when you play a piano if you really get to know it well. There’s a flow to driving a car where you’re not even thinking about what you were doing but yet you were conscious of what you were doing. It’s the same place you’ve got to get to. This is why you’ve got to absorb yourself into your spiritual teachings because ultimately, it is the greatest flow of any of them.

Jesse: When we’re that remote viewing and astral projection are the same thing, would that not say that the micro-macro, going into the micro, going into the macro, wouldn’t that be arising from the same thing too? [54:34]

Eric: Everything is. You’re dressing the astral projection in what you think it should be and I’m saying, “Dump that idea. It’s too limiting.” If anything, you have to have an idea. You have to have a concept. This is why we do the upgrades. It advances your idea of upgrades.

Nick: In talking about simulated reality and the Matrix, is that why it’s possible to hold a frequency, a feeling in your chest and just be there without having time or distance be a factor? [55:07]

Eric: Yeah, because you’re moving a lot of the processes by which we are programmed to do. If you think of—Alright, think of Atari. When you think of Atari, you have asteroids. It’s the simplest game in the world. A little triangle ship shoots out these little tiny blips of light. You’ve got these big, two-dimensional squares and they bust into pieces. There is a process to the madness. You know you’re looking at a computer screen. You know you’re playing this game, but the truth is, do you think something could hack that process? Do you think it could make all of the asteroids into flower petals floating around in a flower petal shape? Do you think that your triangle could be made into a circle and it just spits out things but there’s no point to say where the point should be shooting from? You would know as soon as they come out.

The point I’m making is that everything, in reality, is subjective to how you want to perceive it. We’re all kind of in this collective agreement and hence, the rules are created. When you start to bend the rules in your mind, when you start to think outside the box, this is what we call “paranormal phenomena.” This is when people see ghosts. This is when people see energy. This is when people have crazy things happen because their mind already believes that these things exist, so the code has trouble keeping them contained in what the standardized idea of how things work are. It starts to break at the seams a little bit and percolate. This is why when people get into phenomena, sometimes it gets to become extreme phenomena. Fear is one of the most natural things to survive, so fear starts coming in. This is why you always get these spooky things with paranormal stuff instead of the beautiful, positive things which we call spirituality. We even divide them.

This is all controlled by your inner core, really, your causal energy as I teach. Does that answer your question?

Nick: It did, yeah. [77:27]

Eric: When you have that feeling, you bring that moment to you, in a way. It’s like in a dream. When you go into a dream, if you have anxiety, you will fly in your dream. You run, you kick, you jump in the air, you kick your feet and you can go for a certain distance and you stand out. This is very traditional but anybody who has those kinds of dreams with heights involved, it creates anxiety. Your feet can’t touch the ground, hence, anxiety. You want to have control. You don’t feel like you have control in your life so that means in your real life, ten-to-one, there’s a source. It means your job is causing you anxiety, your living situation. Whatever it is, there’s a source and your brain is trying to create something to therapeutically help you get through that. Every time you fly, you land. You fly, you land. It’s saying, “You have control. This is survival.” It’s teaching you survival. This is why we see lightning hit a tree, we see fire. Primitively, we run and we keep having dreams about it. Next time we see it, we’ve seen it so many times that we’ve been conditioned not to panic as much. This allows us now to approach it in a different way. It’s evolving us, it’s advancing our consciousness.

When you think about your anxiety in life, then I would say, “Hack reality in a way. Take the piece out where you begin to understand that it’s a feeling and use that feeling to superimpose on reality and think of reality, in a sense, as being another imposition on your, just like a dream. Now, there’s this part of you that’s logically going to say, “Well, no. There are walls, there’s everything.” I’d say that in your dream, you can go, (knocking on table), can’t you?” You can do everything. This is where you can either drive yourself mad or you can say, “I’m practicing my meditation. I’m not going to have anxiety.” You have to know that you’ll always return. It’s like waking out of a dream. You’ll always come to a place where you can feel adjusted and in control. It’s really about letting go of control in order to gain greater control if you swim across that lake. You may have to try many times but eventually you get good enough.

Jesse: I was thinking we should have a myth-busting segment. There’s one concept that comes up a lot in circles that talk about astral projection and that is the “astral planes.” To me, any of my experiences have been of this reality. When people talk about astral planes to me—and I’m willing to be wrong—it seems like imagination. [59:28]

Eric: Well, it is but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t astral planes. I talk about the Planes of Light and if I talk about other places, I call them other realities, which really is, in my opinion, other simulated programs that have differentiations in their physics. The laws of physics are different for them, so when you go there, it looks kind of unusual to where our perception would be. Oftentimes, they’re not organic in the sense that we’re organic or bipedal. It’s completely unique, so most people can’t even get that experience because their mind can’t wrap around that. Going into what you’re saying, yes. There is not a place dedicated to being “Valhalla.” This is like the idea of religion saying that when people die, “If you’re in our club, you get to go to heaven. When you go to heaven, life is perfect, life is merry.” Don’t you think it would be the most boring place in the world if this was the way it is? I mean, what do they do, play shuffleboard forever? Is it like the magic kingdom on rockets, hovering over there? This is where we need both the negative and the positive. We need to be challenged in order to progress. We need to be forced to think, usually, survival-wise, otherwise we don’t get off our ass and do anything.

When people have this happy, spiritual plane that they go to, this is a place in their mind that they’re fabricating in order to find a kind of happiness. It’s not to say that it’s not of value. I would say that it is, but on the same token, what you’re really after is a place that’s not predictable rather than a place that is happy. When you think of a happy place, everything is predictable, that’s why it’s happy. If something was unpredictable, there would be a sense of fear. “What’s going to happen?” We don’t know.

Jesse: Would there be a possibility of—I think some people even tie it into the Akashic Records, projecting into some form of the Gaia mind? [61:54]

Eric: This is the other part of the New Age that drives me nuts. Everything is frosted with little color sprinkles on it that everybody who has an imagination has a way to interpret it. It’s like 10% genuine phenomena or spirituality or psychics, whatever you want to call it. This person may genuinely dial into it but they have no control. It’s like you have no control so you start coloring it with the highest level that your intellect can perceive.

Jesse: If people are having astral projection experiences and again, if you kind of look outside of our social bubble, you will see that they kind of like saying that they run into other people who are projecting. Are there a lot of people who are able to have willfully project? [62:38]

Eric: I’m going to say that 99% of people who’re saying that they’re projecting are full of shit. They’re either using their imagination or they’re outright lying to you. When I look at the vast majority of spiritual, psychic phenomena, books, and all of this—what I consider junk—it’s all fantasy. It’s not anything truly worthwhile and I think people try these things and try these things and try these things with limited or no results and when they do have some results, it’s really the only true core of it, which is actually thousands of years old and it started off with Vedic teachings or Hinduism or when people really had nothing better to do than spending their whole life practicing one of these things. It just got to the point where lesser minds try to understand it and wanted to think they had these super powers and then wrote about it as if they were able to do it. It just kept getting white-washed and candy-coated and it’s just junk. That’s why 99% of people out there who are searching for this kind of stuff, they walk away with less than 10% results. That’s because more of the stuff out there is all BS and you’re being deceived. This is why I have the philosophy of “Keep it simple, stupid.” Keep it simple.

Jesse: Do you, when you have mind projection experiences, ever often run into others that are projecting? [64:19]

Eric: When I was much younger, I would do astral projection and I literally would see my body. I never saw a cord but I would always see my body. I would see other people there. In fact, there’s one thing where I called him Charles Xavier but he was a black man who was bald. He couldn’t necessarily physically walk and it was as clear as clear could be. For years, I kind of reanalyzed this but you have to understand that now that I’m much more awakened in this life, more intelligent, more able to understand from this dimension how things work, I look back at that and I do not believe that—I believe that what I was seeing was a superimposed comfort to what I would’ve seen in different ways. This is the same reason people in the—One has to always be careful not to insult people and that’s not my intention but when I was younger, I had less ability to interpret what I was seeing and understanding. It’s just like I could say that about my teens and early twenties. Even as I’m constantly progressing, I’m evolving. You can see that from the teachings.

In essence, what I may have believed twenty years ago, thirty years ago, would’ve been an interpretation based on what my mind could interpret intellectually and translate into a format that you guys could understand. Seeing those things was an overlay of my brain creating comfort. Do you understand? I think that, had I been able to see it in different ways, it would’ve been completely different. I remember one time wanting to go through the Bermuda Triangle because it was a “big thing” back then. I made many, many attempts astral-projection-wise and nothing. One time, I did it and I remember moving through what was this sense of reversing and reversing, like a loop, and then it did an opposite to it. It’s very hard to explain that but it was through that process that I detached from the idea of having a projected body. It was like the thought just went away and my mind was moving through it—my mind, no body, no movement. It was just simply happening.

Of course, I ended up on a world which I would interpret, still, to this day, as a world that looked like it was made of—I’ve tried to explain this before but there have been ponds that I have seen that are dried out. It’s like all mud but it has these big holes everywhere. It still kind of has that sweat layer of moisture on it. It’s not necessarily clay but it’s kind of like clay-mud. It’s just kind of like rumply, with holes and stuff. As far as I could see, that’s all I could see until the horizon, the curvature of the freaking Earth because there were no mountains. What else I saw were pieces of what looked like metals and structures and stuff, as if somebody threw acid on it and it deteriorated most of it before the acid stopped. I believed, at that time, that these were crafts that had maybe gone through there.

Now, the point is this: If I were to go back and look at that, knowing what I know now, I’m not so sure that I would see the debris there. What I know I would see is that planet the way that I saw it. The debris was because I think I wanted to see where things were going that, in my mind, I had to believe that there had to be something. Somewhere in there, it either inserted it or not because my mind has many times through that area. I go back and forth in my thinking and it’s also become less of interest to me because I found more interesting things. The point is that one’s mind evolves and it is what it is.

Nick: As technology progresses, do you feel that there will be anything that will allow us to enhance our mind projection abilities? [68:30]

Eric: No question about it, no question about it, but it isn’t going to be any of the junk you’re seeing on the market now. No little, cheesy, strobe-flashing lights or sound beats and stuff. Listen, go old-school. Quit with all this fluff. They’re just gimmicks. There’s some truth, maybe, to certain levels of frequency but it stops there and they’ve put it on steroids to make a living. The real power is still your mind. It’s more powerful than any technology on Earth.

Jesse: Why are the audio upgrades different than that? [69:10]

Eric: The audio upgrades are actually utilizing your mind in a completely different way. What happens is that I’m actually able to access your visual mind. You’re tracking the sounds like you’re at a movie and you now have Dolby surround sound and everything. When you see something, you get the sense of a helicopter coming at you. It’s in front of you (imitating spinning helicopter blades) so you have the audio sense. When you know it goes over your head on the screen, you can’t see it but you can feel it from the sound because it’s going (continues imitating spinning helicopter blades). Your mind is building this bridge of experience trying to interpret it.

Then, of course, you have crickets behind you or people talking when you see an audience or a group of people on the screen. You hear them around you and stuff. That’s one step, in a way, that I’m utilizing sound. Now, this isn’t trying to get you to go into your beta, data, delta, whatever. What it’s doing is: I’m trying to access, again, the visual parts of your mind that actually go into remote viewing, go into moving your mind into consciousness. Remember what I said earlier about exercising that part so they get stronger and stronger so you start to sense and see more? It’s literally doing that to you with ease because you’re totally entertained but the entertainment isn’t “jump entertainment.” It’s actually like you going to a fitness center and having a workout. The only difference is you get results immediately at the end of the session.

Now, I’m like, “Okay, you have these sounds going on. I want you to isolate this sound and I want you to make it stop from where you see it in your mind’s eye.” One minute, you felt it’s going around you in a circle (imitating whirring noises). Then, all of a sudden, you realize you’re seeing it like a ball and this ball is moving or this propeller has a point that’s moving. Now, you’re exercising that part of your mind with an experience that feels physical but you know that’s nothing physical. Do you get the conundrum now? Do you understand?

It’s the same thing when you move your mind through time and space. You need that understanding. When I say, then, “Find the sound. Slow it,” all of a sudden, the person starts concentrating and they start slowing it. By where are you drawing the ability to stop this thing from moving? This isn’t a pre-programmed system. You begin to slow it and you begin to actually get to the point where you can stop it. If you pay attention, you can feel it in your chest, like there’s something happening in you from some other source that’s exercising some kind of willpower, some kind of influence on something you’re experiencing. Think about how profound that is.

Now, you’re holding this down and the second your mind wanders, that stupid Babbler kicks in, all of a sudden (imitating whooshing sound), you’ve lost your powers. Now, you’ve got to do it again, the only difference is that it takes you half the time to do it because you’re learning. Then, all of a sudden, your mind wanders again. It goes. The third time you go, you do it even faster. Eventually, by the fifth time, you can just do it by will alone. Then, I say to you, “Well, make this thing start going in the reverse way.” You’re like, “Ahhh,” but you start practicing and then all of a sudden, you can do it in a reverse way. You can stop it. I could say, “Make it stop at a three o’clock point. Make it stop at a four point. Make it stop at a ten.” You can. This is not simply applicable to that session. You can now use this on a psychic level. If you walk into a haunted house and there are phenomena, you want the truth? You can affect the entity or the frequency in there. Think of it the same way. You can’t grab it. You can’t do anything. What happens when you can will it and all of a sudden you can hold it? It’s the same way if you just translate the idea of that sound movement around and you think of it as being that ball. That ball, that entity is the ball, and it’s under a very similar relationship to the sound that you were controlling. It’s very bridgeable as an idea to an intelligence or energy. They’re both not touchable in a way, physically.

Then, it goes into more and more training, more elaborate training where you begin to let your mind move between sounds and frequencies where you start to hear people singing. There’s no singing in there. Look at the tracks!

Jesse: I was going to say, we’ve had hundreds of people at this point that we’ve done case studies on and I know for a fact that there are no vocals in any of the audio upgrades. [73:40]

Eric: They’re very simple. You can count how many instruments are in each one.

Jesse: So many people—it’s not a just a few people, it’s a bunch of people—are coming out [saying], “I heard angelic voices.” [73:52]

Eric: Yeah! They’ll argue to death, absolutely. There’s no question it’s there.

Jesse: Yeah, and other people are like, “Yeah, I heard…I didn’t hear that but I heard Buddhist monks chanting,” or… [74:04]

Eric: Chanting beautifully, yeah.

Jesse: Yeah! Another thing that I always noticed—a lot of people were saying this, too. You feel this. In some of them, you feel this, “Dude, I swear to God, people are talking in the room. People are annoying me like they’re around me.” You’re swatting and you look and there’s nobody! Everybody’s just meditating! [74:11]

Eric: The reason why these do this—You don’t get this from this binaural stuff. This is way beyond all that. What you’re getting from this is training for your mind to enter the simulated reality with new rules. You’re gaining skills that allow you to harvest information from wherever you are. That’s what’s important. All of your five senses harness information, that’s what they do. That’s how you know what you know, that’s how you eat what you eat, you taste what you taste. It’s information: what’s good, what’s bad, what’s good to see, what’s bad to see, what’s pleasant to hear, what’s not pleasant to hear. That defines your intelligence and it’s all converted to electricity when it goes through one of your senses. When you start to develop a sense that can define things that the other five cannot see or experience at all, that increases your intelligence dramatically over your fellow human race.

Jesse: I don’t know if you want to, if this is proprietary, but why is that people are experiencing those same, specific phenomena? Is it—[75:36]

Eric: Well, I think that certain individuals are—You know, I hate to say like the X-Me  if you will, but some people are dispositioned for different skill sets. It’s like some people might be better at hearing sounds and they can hear higher levels of octaves per se. Some people may have a better palette to see color for paintings and stuff like that. Other people may have a better palette for tasting and they literally can taste stuff that other people can’t, or hear things and these things. Other people are more adept for recall or memory versus trying to do other stuff that other people have an average of.

I think that people have unique interests already, they just are driven in a certain way and that is actually sorting them because they’re finding that they have an aptitude or a strength in certain areas of that skill. That is why they’re hearing what they’re hearing. You have two different—

Jesse: What they’re hearing, is it a real thing that they’re hearing? [76:42]

Eric: Absolutely, absolutely.

Jesse: What is it? Do you want to go into that or no? [76:48]

Eric: Well, we probably have to wrap this up soon but this is the real deal and what you have to understand is that when you say “angelic voices,” I understand that that’s an interpretation but here we go with wordplay again. You imagine this course of angels with wings. That’s not what it is. I’ll leave it on this note: You have emotions in you that are very slot and positioned.

“This is my anger. This is love. This is joy. This is happiness. This is fulfillment.” You could say what all of them are, correct? When you move—If you feel that way, it means that the cells in your body can be affected by that same mood. We know this through research. When you, as a cell, if you look at it that way, enter the bigger picture, how would say that your interpretation through what you are at this moment would interpret a place that you become aware of?

Jesse: Oh, from a cellular perspective? [77:56]

Eric: Correct. That’s the first gateway you’re stepping through. The point is, if you continue to move through it, it just gets wider and bigger and more profound. What you’re literally doing is you’re standing at the doorway hearing what’s on the other side coming at you.